IB versus A levels. The truth about studying for the International Baccalaureate

The past few weeks have been crammed full of exams. Now the results of those exams have been received and hundreds of thousands of students are taking the next steps towards further study. However, it's not always as simple as that.

In recent years, more and more qualifications have been introduced into the system. One of the most talked about has been the IB or International Baccalaureate. But what is it and is it a good alternative to A levels?

Here guest blogger Anthea Rowan, author of Living Around the Blues, a brilliant blog at Psychology Today explains all...

"I am studying the IB and while I understand that it is better than A levels, no one else does. The degree course I want to do means I must gain at least 36 points at  IB or 3 A’s at A level. The quality and amount of work you have to do to get 36 points is huge compared to what you have to do to get 3 A’s at A level. I’m starting to think that I should have taken the easy option and gone for A levels because IB certainly doesn’t get the recognition it needs.

I came across this comment (posted by Katie) on a students’ forum debating the relative merits, or not, of the International Baccalaureate (IB) versus Advance Levels (A’levels). 

I wish I’d found it before. A year ago, when my son was juggling the decision about whether to stay put and do the IB, or (scarier option) move schools and do A’levels. He stayed put. Somebody suggested he was wimping out of an opportunity to extend himself (new school, foreign environment), somebody else said they didn’t know why we’d ever considered moving him in the first place: not when he had access to an IB place.

The IB is a big buzz word today. Sort of the educational equivalent to the New Black. If a school offers the IB alongside A’levels, it’s gained a new kind of cool. And if you’re being sold an IB place this is what the experts will tell you: it’s broader, it’s more challenging and it’s regarded favourably by universities.

This, though, is what they won’t tell you. It’s more time consuming. Much, much more time consuming. Two integral parts of the IB, and role players in the final points collection, are the Theory of Knowledge course and the extended (4,000 word) essay.  These in addition to taking six subjects and doing your point collecting CAS activities …

And the six subjects (three taken at Higher level, three at Standard) must include two languages, a science and maths. Had my son done A’levels, he’d have opted for Physics, Chemistry, Biology and possibly Maths. He is not a stupid child, which is just as well: as another IB taking commentator on the forum I found observed, you have to be able to work hard, pick stuff up quickly, and be naturally clever, if u ain’t these three things u r wasting ur time…

But he isn’t a words whizz either. Literature isn’t his thing and nor are foreign languages.  Whilst he is gaining respectable grades in Physics (fives and 6’s out of a possible 7), languages drop to 2’s, 3’s and occasionally, if he’s lucky, 4’s.   And whilst A’levels are marked and delivered as separate grades (so that you might demonstrate your shining A-grade light in Physics, say), the IB lumps the whole lot together - the fives and sixes are let down by, but not separated from, the less impressive 2’s and 3’s - so prospective universities (the ones where you’re applying to do a science degree) mightn’t recognise that even though you’re not that hot at Kiswahili, you are a brilliant physicist.

Nor was I made aware (indeed I was led to believe the opposite) that many universities in the UK are biased towards A-levels (probably simply because they understand them better; they’ve been around for longer and there are still only a relative handful of schools in Britain offering the IB) and demand an unfair tariff when it comes to points as compared to A-level offers for the same course.  Consider Katie’s indignant comment at the top: 35 IB points are equivalent to 4 ½ A grades at A’level. No wonder she’s unhappy.  A number of students who sat the IB last summer and came out with a full 45 point quota (equivalent to more than six A grades at A’level) were declined places at Cambridge. Happily they were accepted at Ivy League schools in the States.  Hardly a brain drain but a worrying little trickle … 

So. For kids who might still be deliberating whether to do the IB or A’levels, let me leave you with this, from the same forum where I discovered Katie.

It’s time for me to make a choice between IB and A-levels. The thing is, I have two sisters who did IB and are currently in university. As they did IB, I watched them CRY, literally, have sleepless nights, and cry more…Now that they’re finally in university, they tell me that it really paid of, and they watch the people who did A-Levels suffer.
I, however, am still very keen on doing A-Levels because, as mentioned above, IB doesn’t get the recognition it deserves, especially in the UK, which is where I intend on going! But… If you are planning on going anywhere else in the world, consider the IB and ask yourself, “Why beat yourself with a hammer?”

Why? Because it feels really good when you stop!"

Read School Gate:

What it's really like to take GCSEs - by a 16 year old

The most popular universities

Why I'm happy to be home-schooled

Comments

[George Hogan]

This is absolutely true - I took the IB this year - it's far more work than A levels, but for far less recognition from Universities, some of whom seem to just make up their offers on the spot. Sure, if you want a challenging course, do IB. But if you want to go to a decent University, take A levels!

[NHTPC]

www.truthaboutib.com

[Alex N]

The IB is being over hyped. It has a greater workload than 3 'softer' A levels but less than 4 of the 'harder' A levels with an AEA. Why are some of the more academic Universities less than enthusiastic about the IB? Partly because a strong sixth form student who has completed 4 A levels and one or possibly more AEA will, usually,have a greater depth to their subject knowledge and comparable skills. The UCAS points received for the IB are very, very generous.

For the more able students with an emerging subject interest A levels/AEA will often remain the best option. For generalists the IB has some attractions.

[Arjun]

I found the IB system helpful, focused and thought provoking. Although it was difficult, it taught me the value of managing my time and becoming an caring global citizen. In all honesty, it has made me a better person. In the US, the program is valued but still does not get as much recognition as the Advanced Placement. If you are looking for a holistic education with a wider perspective on your field of study, go for the IB. If you want a slightly lighter workload, chose the AP or the A levels.

[margaret]

I graduated from an IB program at a public high school in the US. It was an extremely difficult program but I think it made me more well-rounded and prepared for university work. Actually, uni was rather easy compared to my last 2 years of high school. My friends who studied engineering or other sciences at uni felt that IB didn't benefit them as much as it did people who went in to liberal arts (humanities, social sciences). Anyhow, for students in the US I think IB is a difficult but meaningful experience. It forces you to become more academic than you normally would in most high schools (at least in the US). I liked that we were assessed on many different facets (essays, projects, lab reports, etc), not just with an exam. And in retrospect I like how the program uses a lot of rubrics for assessment. Also, to get the diploma I had to do a large amount of community service, which is something that many American high schoolers are lacking.

I have no idea what people are talking about when they claim IB is some kind of socialist cult. I sided more with American conservatives (Republicans) when I was in high school and I never thought that IB was socialist.

[Louisa May]

I loved doing the IB. I went to an international school abroad, so my experience was a bit different; for example, students were amazed that they were "only" required to do two languages.

At my school I got to do 3 science subjects, maths at HL, plus my extended essay in chemistry.I'm pretty sure I got to cover the fields I liked pretty deeply- more so than my friends at uni who did A-levels. At least that is what they said. I really liked the fact that exams were not modular, too.

By the way, you do receive a breakdown of your mark specific subjects- the universities I applied to were more interested in the subject specific scores than in the overall points I received. That said, one uni did want 43 pts...which is a very high offer whichever way you look at it. It is true that IB offers can be a bit crazy- I applied to study biology (at the uni mentioned above)- they specifically wanted a 7 from HL Maths (and the 43 points)...I made the offer, but in the process somehow got the naiive thought that everyone doing bio must love maths; imagine my surprise when many of my classmates hadn't done any maths at A-level. My offer and the dons who came up with it did give the wrong impression of what was expected when one actually got to the uni. C'est la vie, though I'm thinking that I should change the course I'm on- perhaps to biomathematics!

The IB definitely isn't for everyone, but in my case it brought a great deal of personal satisfaction and my happiest years at school. The harder you work, the more you get out of it!

[inkstain]

The IB is a dog's dinner compared to the Swiss Matura which possibly ranks as the toughest of all. There are, depending on the year, up to nine subjects, including English, French, German (required) chemistry, bio, physics (with intensified options) history, geography, and of course maths, (with intensified option available, or Latin and Greek. The third year requires a thesis project, started at the end of the second year, which for most studens, requires rigorous and sustained application, including through the summer months in order to complete by early spring.
Once completed, the Matura allows any Swiss entrance to the Swiss university of his choice. Most Swiss students are weeded out of the matura track before high school, leaving about 20-25% the chance to try.

[Alan]

The IB was considered the soft choice in Luxembourg where those who struggled with the EB (European Bac) would downgrade to the softer IB in a bid to get better grades.

With the European Bac you had 11 subjects to undertake.

[M Wotton]

I attended a private school in Sydney, Aust that gave me the opportunity to complete both the IB and the equivalent state leaving certificate (the HSC when I did it) - while many friends thought I was nuts for doing both, I treated the HSC as a 'warm-up' for the IB (I sat these exams 6mths before finishing the IB). As it happened I got into my first choice degree on my HSC results, but I will always be grateful for doing the IB.

The key benefit for me was that you actually had to learn how to learn - your brain wasn't to be simply treated like a sponge to absorb the syllabus only to spew it back out again in the exam.

I also found that the IB set me up very well for uni - I already knew how to study independently and my depth of knowledge was much greater than many others.

I'd strongly recommend it as a course of study for those suited to it

[Stephen]

We do not have experience of the IB but we do of the PYP which is the primary school feeder to the IB. I think the IB may be fine but I would strongly recommend that you simply do not let your children into a PYP school.

It seemed to be a system of slogan based education "world citizens"; "risk takers" developed by hippies for lazy teachers. If you complained, you were brought into a treacle of process and educational religion which allowed our chidren to just flounder. It seems to be education based on an orgasmic ending. You can see no progress but apparently it all comes right at teh end. Eventually, when the school dropped maths (yes really) and we were told that our 6 year old had "plateaud", we pulled our kids and it took a year in a good - but not special - British ssystem school to get them back in to the educational basics and to learn how to learn again.

The British system is not perfect but you know what a child should be doing at set ages and if you have a problem with the child or sub standard teacher. With PYP, you could never tell if the child was the problem or the teacher or the system. You simply cannot get a grip on whether a school is achieving or not as you are all waiting with crossed fingers for the orgasm.

[Appleby]

ALEX N:

Please explain how 4 'harder' A levels is more difficult than IB 3HL+3SL+Extended Essay+TOK, all of which is lumped together for the final score? Could you also support your claim that the UCAS points given for IB are 'generous'? You don't seem to base your opinions on anything.

As to students with emerging subject interests: the depth of understanding that you get in the IB OR the A-Level's is basically just warm up for university anyway. If you want to become an engineer or a doctor, the IB offers you an incredibly rigorous choice of 3 higher level sciences and a 4000 word essay in a topic of your choosing. I'd say that sounds deep enough for preparation work.

As people have written, the most important part of the IB is the work ethic it teaches as you have to be able to juggle the entire load all at the same time. When you come to university with IB under your belt, you will wonder at some of the A-level kids who don't know how to reference their essays and are surprised when they found out their work has been checked for plagiarism and found guilty.

Do the IB! You will gripe about it during the application process, but you will be so happy you have done it come first year.

[FJ]

I did the IB at a school that offered both the IB and A Levels and I do not know what all the fuss is about. Yes they are more difficult and more time consuming, but I don't see how these are bad things. Surely learning to manage your time effectively and to deal with challanges which are not necessarily suited to your strengths is a good thing?

My impression of A Levels is that knowledge is spoon fed to you with the exam always in mind. What you do learn has little use outside of an A Level exam hall.

To George Hogan:

The proportion of IB students from my school that went to Oxford or Cambridge massively outstripped the A Level students. You just have to get the grades!

[Amelia]

I did the PYP, followed by the MYP, and am starting the IB programme tomorrow. I'd just like to say that MYP is also treated with the same contempt that IB sometimes faces as being 'easier' than the O levels or IGCSE's. In MYP, we had to eleven main subjects as well as a year long project. If we failed just one subject, we failed the whole thing. MYP is brilliant preperation for IB, as both programmes focus on the students 'learning how to learn'.

[Russell]

A Levels come out of the 'cram facts and take the exam' era of post war Britain. The IB teaches how to teach yourself. It is more rounded and more useful for both University and later life. Besides your subjects you have also learnt the essential skills that you will need to go to University - a double bonus. The IB is about education, while A levels are the result of being trained in subjects.
One of the essential components is teh word 'International'. Thus you will have noticed people from different continents responding here, evidience that it is teh start of a consistent international standard, not just British and not just European.
Some UK universities have a problem with IB while others are more welcoming. I could well see them eventually competing with say, the USA and Asia for the best IB students.

[Nia]

You think the IB causes problems?! Try taking a WB. What's that? It's a Welsh Bacc. Why we Taffs decided that our own qualification would be better than an International one I don't know, but I know it's causing problems. I wasn't given the option to take a WB (thankfully) but a friend of mine in another school is having trouble. The WB is not mentioned in the entry requirements of most universities. Why is this? They've never even heard of it! Most of the unis he's contacted about this haven't got a clue what he's talking about! At least the IB is recognised!

[Mr B]

As a teacher, and Principal, with extensive experience of both A level and the IB, I have to say that the article displays some opinions that are uninformed.

The UCAS tarif system gives a tremendous advantage to IB students and the admissions officers of Russell group universities are very clear in their view that IB students are very desirable candidates.

Students are also accepted on the basis of individual subject grades, as listed on the Diploma. Even students with less than passing scores for the overall Diploma (ca. 24) frequently gain university admittance on the basis of two or three subjects.

Yes the IB, as most work, requires time management skills but the choice is a no brainer: the IB provides a far better educational experience, and an informed and philosophical background to one's intended specialism.

[A Mum]

That may be the case, Mr B, but there have been a high number of IB students with full marks who have failed to gain entry to their UK choices and ended up in the States.

And from 2010 the UCAS Tariff's are changing; whereas this year a full 45 points will score a student 768 UCAS points, from next the same IB score will fetch just 720 ...

My daughter is presently considering university choices for next year and nobody's interested in predicted 6 and 7 for physics, rather they're stuck on the 35s and 37s which she won't get given that she's going to fall down on second language.

[Rebecca]

I did the IB 16 years ago at a state sixth form college in Wales. Even back then, the universities had a fairly good understanding of IB structure and I had fairly low offers from some excellent universities.

The IB is demanding and requires commitment and motivation from the student. I found the curriculum interesting and the extended essay was a great preparation for university study. I would like my two sons to study it when the time comes, although it doesn't appear to be offered by the local state schools here in England.

[Concerned Parent]

I agree with George Hogan. In my opinion, the IB is a total con. My son will be sitting his IB exams in May 2010 and we are totally frustrated at the lack of recognition given by UK (and Australian) universities for the IB. He would have been better off taking 3 or 4 A levels than subjecting himself to the rigours of the IB.
As a parent - my advice is don't waste your money on an IB school. We have lived in several countries abroad and every school pushed the IB, extolling its virtues and telling us how highly regarded it is by universities. Not true! We have visited several UK and Australian universities and not a single one of them regards the IB in any sort of esteem.

[Diana Brown]

My two children went to international schools where they did IB. I was very keen on their following the IB course rather than A-levels, because I don't think that education is just about passing exams; it's about widening one's horizons and learning how to learn. I hate the premature specialisation of A-levels, unless one does a lot more subjects than average.

There was a problem when my son applied to Oxford, because the offer was 3 7s at higher level and a total of 35. You can work it out that this was undervaluing the IB and simply seeing highers as equivalent to A-levels, while ignoring the rest of the course. But his school negotiated with the college and they changed the offer slightly. But this was 12 years ago, and they have had more experience of IB since then.

My daughter, who took IB earlier, also went to Oxford. She found that working for IB had given her an advantage over contemporaries who had done A-levels. She was much more used to independent study and to organising her work.

[Lucy w/o K]

Obviously there's a depth/breadth trade-off involved in choosing one system over the other. For what it's worth, students who've done broader courses (as in the American system) are still 'behind' their British counterparts after the end of an undergraduate degree (that's why they have those great long PhDs to catch up in). However, they do have a huge amount of flexibility in their thinking that's not easy to learn otherwise.

British universities aren't really geared to teaching people educated broadly but in little depth, which might be why some people have had bad experiences applying with IBs. Still, they'll have the last laugh if they stick it out - by the time you've finished your degree, the same universities suddenly want to know how you can be interdisciplinary and demonstrate broad knowledge ... it's swings and roundabouts.

[Naim Slim]

The entire ethos of the course is different -- in today's A-level culture, anything below a B grade is seen as mediocre/average, whereas it wasn't so long ago where getting a GCE was an achievement in itself. The IB is similar -- about 20% each year fail to get the diploma in the first place. A level 7 in a subject is much harder to attain than an A at A-level as the exams are more focused on understanding rather than straight recall (I know this when I used to do A-level papers as exam revision). TOK actually teaches you to think critically about the subjects you are taught rather than accept spoon-fed facts, something that the A-level lacks. The extended essay, in retrospect, was a godsend as lo and behold, there are plenty of those to do at university.

[Chris]

There seems to be a lot of pro-IB comments left on here (and indeed within the article). As someone who left school with four A grades at A-level (Maths, Further Maths, Physics and Chemistry) and is now studying a science degree at one of the leading universities in the country I would like to point out that people on my course who have done IB are without doubt at a disadvantage to start with as they have not covered the sciences and maths in the same depth as A-level students. For this reason the IB offers for university may appear high but they are so for a good reason. Whether such early specialisation, as favoured by A-levels, is a good thing remains to be seen but they currently cater far better for a lot of university courses.

[Kathleen]

I took my IB exams this May and received my results in early July. When making my application to Universities I was wary of the offers I was to expect. I went to a state comprehensive that offered both the IB and A-levels. Many of my friends who took A-levels had fairly standard offers, which while not easy to obtain the grades, at least seemed to be what was expected. When I received my offers there was huge variation in the points that were required. My lowest offer was made at 30 points and the highest at 40. I wound up accepting the offer of 40 and was incredibly nervous about doing so even before the exams had started. Many of those who know the IB would say that 40 points is a lot to ask and definitely not the equivalent of 3 A grades at A-level. Having said that I made the grades and will be taking up a place at my chosen university shortly. I have worked incredibly hard over the past two years, more so than many of my contemporaries, but I do not regret taking the IB at all. Yes, it was tough in a number of different ways, but I feel that I will be well prepared for the next four years of study both in terms of organisation and time management, but also intellectually.

[Ib student from Finland]

I'm studying in the Ib in Finland. Ib is becoming more and more popular in Northern countries as well but...

Many people have said that Ib would be only a time consumer and pain. Not true at all! In the Ib people have you have the advantage to choose the subjects you are interested in. If you really want to achieve something you have to be ready to do work for it.

The matriculation exam in national side here in Finland is not necessarily easier than the ib. Once again depending on the subjects you choose has much to do difficulty of your studies.

I think I will be really glad that I've chosen the Ib after this year and I'm already. For you guys in the Uk studying in a high school is all about getting in to a university. For us in Finland studying is not that. We have entrance exams in universities. All applicants are in the same line. People who have done their high school studies well might get a place without these exams. I personally like this system. People who have done badly will get a second chance.

[Abbie]

I'm taking the IB at the moment and am in the midst of my Extended Essay,
although it has been hard so far, I am already seeing how it can broaden my horizons in later life, and despite the infamous 'IB Breakdowns' that come along with the course, when you think 'why didn't I take A-Levels' at 4 am with 3 essays due in the next day, I know from talking to people who have already done it, that it will be worth it in the end, it is so much more work than A-Levels, but it is also a lot of fun, and the course we follow I find so much more interesting than the one I would have done for A-Levels, I just wish everyone else would get how much work we put in comparatively!

[jenny thomp]

Scratching my head at ths article to be honest.

Times ususal line - schools do not stretch our kids enough, A levels getting so they come free with cereal, education not challenging kids.

Times line on IB - too stretching even for the bright, too hard to get compared with A levels, too challenging.

make up your mind.

Yes it's hard, yes it's undervalued, but by God you get an adult who can do statistics AND has read Chekhov. Don't get that with A-levels and it sure shows.