Grand Slam Sunday and Simon Barnes

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For Gabriele Marcotti on why the Capello Mafia jokes just aren't funny, scroll down to the comment section - and don't forget to have your say.

We call in the heavy hitters this week as Simon Barnes, The Times' Chief Sportswriter join us to discuss England. Simon's writing has been described as poetry and his rather more studied reflections will no doubt be a welcome respite for those who can barely put up with my and Guillem's chatterings. He tells us just why - when a new manager is appointed - the press have their knives out from day one, why football seeps into the lives of non football fans as well and why it's somewhat incongruous to demand a domestic England boss. In the club v country debate, I suggest that your relationship with your club is like the one you have with your spouse or significant other, whereas the one with your country is like the one you share with your mother. Prompting Simon to suggest that this would make the England manager some kind of Oedipal figure you wish to kill. Which makes a lot of sense to me. Matt Hughes also joins us to sift through Grand Slam Sunday...

We try to figure out just why United's defence is so good (eight goals conceded). Bill opines that Patrice Evra is the best attacking full back he has ever seen in England. Guillem makes the point that not too many Liverpool players would get in the United side. And we all agree that, when Tevez and Rooney play the way they've been playing, they don't need a genuine centre-forward (like Saha). Guillem also reveals the outcome of the much anticipated meeting between Rafa Benitez and Liverpool's owners, Tom Hicks and George Gillette (it's a bit of a letdown to be honest...) Matt says Arsenal proved they are far ahead of Chelsea (I'm not thoroughly convinced, given that the deciding goal came on blunder by Petr Cech). Still, we give the Gooners credit (how could you not?) and reflect on the obstacles facing Avram Grant in the next few months as players jet off to the African Nations' Cup and he loses captain John Terry. Bill offers up a stat which bodes very well for Manchester City supporters and there's our Quick Hits section. Plus, to get you guys posting (I haven't been good about interacting on the Game Podcast Blog, I promise to do better) we continue to offer up a copy of Championship Manager to our poster of the week. So get busy.

Comments

[amit]

Its ironic, not only are foreign footballers better than English ones, foreign journalists are better too. Great podcast. Best two football journos in the country. Also what do make of peter crouch's statements about foreigners?

[Art Vandelay]

Another great podcast, as per usual. Please ignore those sadists asking for Danny Kelly's return. Just wondering what Gabriele and Guillem think of the rumor that Stuart Pearce will be groomed to replace Fabio Capello or at the very least be a member of his coaching staff. Is the idea of eventually replacing one of the best managers in world football with Stuart Pearce a sign that the F.A. will, in a few years, be taking two steps back after this one step forward?
Also, a quick question for Gab. Is AC Milan's Yoann Gourcuff actually worthy of the title the 'next Zidane' or is this statement as accurate as all the 'next Maradona' predictions?

[Razorman]

Guillem:
In response to your comments.
Why don't YOU tell ME what style Liverpool play?? They don't have one that can be identified as "Liverpool's style"!

Yes, Liverpool has had a degree of success, and success is relative, but seriously, you cannot call the last 10 year successful. Yes, a team like Liverpool will win trophies, even Ged Houllier won three in one season, however, look where he is now.

The essence of my post was that unless Liverpool develop a football philosophy, a style of play, like they had under Shankly and Paisley where everybody knew their role and knew how to play "the Liverpool way", Liverpool will continue to flatter to deceive and never reach the levels of consistency required to maintain a sustained challenge on all footballing front (in particular the premiership). Maybe success is wrong word to use - I suppose DOMINANCE is what all teams ultimately want to achieve, and right now we are being dominated by the other big clubs.

My theory is epitomised by Arsenal who "only know how to play the Arsenal way" and have done so with great effectiveness over the last decade or so, but can also be seen in the relative success of Bolton under Big Sam who molded a team of Sunday afternoon footballers into a fearsome squad, why ... because they all played, from Goalkeeper to tea-lady, "the Bolton way". If only Liverpool could embrace such single-mindedness.

[guillem balague]

Bharath, the problem with most Academies is that they do not have a direct relation to the manager, they are like independent entities sometimes more interested about educating youngsters than creating footballers. If you add to it that the level of coaching is simply not good enough at the youth level, then you get the reasons why most clubs cannot bring through young players of quality

Razorman, I want you to describe for me what 'not being successful' is. Liverpool have had a degree of success in recent years, don't you think? Also, Milan, Manchester United or Arsenal have played different formations and systems in the last few years too. Liverpool have got a style, it's a different matter if you don't particularly like it.

Ben, I have always wondered about los Pross. It is short for Professionals, but people use it in the Spanish press thinking wrongly that is how they are also called in England.

[Ben Jacobs]

I just wondered if Gabriele or especially Guillem knows why the Spanish newspapers (particularly Marca) refer to the English national side as "Los Pross". What does it mean?

[Razorman]

Gab & Guillem:
I am a die hard Liverpool fan, and I have figured out the reason why Liverpool have not been successful.
Liverpool does not have a footballing philosophy. Back in the day, they had a philospohy and therefore dominated the footballing world.
Look at the current success of Arsenal, ManU, Barca, AC Milan and even smaller teams like Bolton (under Sam) & Villa Real they play to a philosophy; they play a constant style and constant formations (regardless of who is playing, who they are playing or what the scoreline is - they always play the same way).

Liverpool have no identity at the moment. One day they play 4-4-2, next day it's 4-3-3, next day it's 4-5-1. On any given day or occassion, you cannot tell what type of football Liverpool will play, whether it's the first team, reserves, youth or a combination of all the above, and hence their lack of success.

What do you think of my theory?

[Brian]

Gabriele --- I have a close relative in Sicily and wholeheartedly agree with your point about the gravity of the Mafia problem there and your point about the levity with which most English-speaking people regard it. I don't think the joking is done out of insensitivity or malice, though; it's rather that, as you suggest, Mafia imagery has so completely taken root in Anglophone popular culture that for most people, I think it's perceived almost as a pure fiction. It feels less like Nazism or the IRA than like the Dark Side of the Force.

That's a mistake, obviously (as Roberto Saviano's work has recently made clear), but it's an understandable one considering that the closest most English-speaking people ever come to the Mafia is through TV marketing campaigns. In any case, thanks for making the point.

[Bharath Janardhan]

Hi Gab,

Regarding Liverpool, I reckon that the youth development will become even more important if the reports regarding a lack of money is true, especially considering the holes in the squad that Guillem highlighted. Do you think he's up to that, especially as he's overhauled the youth system (with the firing of Steve Heighway), and that sort of thing takes time to bear fruit?
With the national identity of the England manager, I would like to remind everyone of the Ashes win over Australia in 2005. Duncan Fletcher is Zimbabwean, but he had been a part of the team for so long that he became part of the "english" furniture if you know what I mean. I can see the same thing happening to Capello.
And finally, given the big song and dance in England regarding youth development, could we have a special regarding that? Maybe bring in a youth coach or something? Because I would love to know why Manchester City can bring through so many quality youngsters, but Liverpool and the likes can't get anyone through.
I know that the quality required to play for the big four is greater than the standard required for City, but there has to be something else behind it.

[Gabriele Marcotti]

1. Wrongeye -- I get the stereotypes. But the reason I pointed out O'Neill and the IRA is that I don't think anyone would make comments like that in this country because people realize just how sensitive it is. And if the media did make jokes about The Troubles I think it would be pretty tasteless. The thing about the Mafia is that a certain brand of "Mafia chic" has developed over time and - through shows like The Sopranos (of which I'm a big fan) - people think it's something to joke about. Let me make an analogy. If Klinsmann had got the England job people (I hope) wouldn't be calling him Der Fuhrer and call his assistants the SS stormtroopers. Possibly because there is no such thing as "Nazi chic" (and, hopefully there never will be). But with the Mafia it's a different story, possibly because TV and films have depicted a romanticized version of it. To those who live in Sicily however, it's neither romantic, nor a joke. Just as The Troubles in Northern Ireland aren't a joke to O'Neill.
2. I'm not bothered by the rest of the stereotyping: pizza, Mamma, designer clothes, pasta and whatever else they want to trot out. It's just that, to me, Mafia is a whole other issue.

[Riccardo, Nottingham]

Gab, The tabloid press haven't even started on Capello yet !! And, as Guillem implied, the broadsheets have been (generally) positive about him. Perhaps the best asset that Capello brings to this job is a very thick skin. He doesn't care what the press writes. He's intelligent enough to know that you can't be friends with them. Over time the ridiculous and unfunny puns and stereotypes *will be* trotted out. And, as you say it is ignorant. So, grow a thick skin (like Capello), and don't read 'those' papers. They're c*** anyway, so why would you ?

[THEWRONGEYE]

following on from the godfather comments, as an ulsterman living in england, i have received many hilarious IRA related jokes from my colleagues. more boring than annoying, it doesn't really get my back up. the godfather has a lot more exposure in the media that the 'ra ever did (favorable or not) so while it's not smart or clever, it's not really worth getting worked up about.

[TheWrighteye]

Like Simon Barnes he should be on more regularly