The Debate: Is it time for the FA to start exploiting the situation?

Desperate times call for desperate measures, so, if the prospects of would-be England footballers are being threatened by the overseas imports who are flooding the youth academies at Arsenal and Liverpool in particular, is it time for the FA to start trying to exploit the situation by turning some of those young Italians, Spaniards, Czechs and Hungarians into honorary Englishmen?

Under Fifa’s regulations, a player who is uncapped at senior level has only to have “lived continuously for at least two years on the territory” to represent that country. In theory, Manuel Almunia, the Arsenal goalkeeper, will be eligible to play for England, but if this loophole is worth exploiting, surely it would be preferable to look beyond a 30-year-old journeyman and make overtures towards some of his younger team-mates at the Emirates Stadium.

It is far too late for Cesc Fàbregas or Nicklas Bendtner, already established as full internationals with Spain and Denmark respectively, but what about Fran Merida, the highly regarded 17-year-old who was enticed from Barcelona’s youth academy last summer, just like Fàbregas four years earlier?

People will say it cannot happen, that no player would turn his back on his homeland to play for an adopted country, but Merida is Catalan first and Spanish second. Why would he not swear allegiance to England, given that he has already turned his back on Barcelona to join Arsenal? Liverpool’s youth team contain Astrit Ajdarevic, a Kosovo-born midfield player who has represented Sweden at under-17 level, and Geraldo Bruna, an Argentinian who moved to Madrid aged 9.

Both would be forgiven for being confused about issues of nationality, so why not subtly encourage them to keep their options open until they qualify for British citizenship and become eligible to play for England — or Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland for that matter?

If the FA is open-minded enough — read desperate enough — to recruit an Italian manager, can it afford to turn its nose up at talented teenagers who will soon be eligible for a British passport?

Should the FA attempt to recruit talented foreigners to the England cause?

Comments

[Rob]

John Barnes did just what you're debating and that was 20 years ago! it was probably where Jack Charlton got the idea from.

[JohnST]

If Zinedine Zidane who holds dual citizenship in France and Algeria can represent France as skipper, why can't England do the same?

Are they so proud that they cannot imagine a player possessing Zidane's calibre but of different nationality, fitting into their team?

Seriously, England needs to wake up to the fact that their football has been in shambles since 1966.

[Sean]

I've got an idea, what about a form of football where each team can have a manager from any country and players from any country... oh wait.

[Kevin]

English football is in a hole, should we keep digging? I think not. The problem is not that our system is too rigid, it is not rigid enough. Why do we allow Premiership youth teams to import non-English players and then bring them through, this is one less place for a true english player. Here's a thought why don't we start looking after our own youth that were BORN here we are a multi cultural country now we have just about every nationality in the nation we just need to give our youth players a chance. We also need to look at how many non-English players play in England at senior level and then start to put some controls into that. Just because non English people think it is a good idea does not mean that it is. To be English is an honour not something to be handed out like sweets.

[Bob]

If players can change their nationality can I change the team I support please. I would like to become a Brazilian or a Frenchman. For the moment I have decided to unilaterally declare myself not English. We can sell our soul to the highest bidder as has been proved many times in English football.

This would be the ultimate betrayal by the English FA actually naturalising players for this purpose. Well, what do you expect from an Italian? As if they have any interest or pride in England or the UK.

[Alain]

Why not? You Brits opted for a foreign manager, what stops you from recruiting foreign players!

[Unissa Kamara]

We in Sierra Leone have been thinking of this idea. Today the premier league is one of the best leagues in the world and everybody is expecting the national team to put the best performance but they always give the worst. Involving other nations will be a good idea. I am an England fan I feel frustrated when we fail to qualify. Let the FA look for the talented players in the world and naturalise them. Foreign players won the world cup for France and the Euro. What is wrong if we do the same thing? The most important thing is England won a trophy at the end of the day. Please, please, please let the FA act now and do something good for England. God bless England and the national team. Bye for now.
Unissa Kamara-Peh.

The fact we are talking about this points to the pathetic state of English football.

[Chris, Bolton]

Hargreaves is different to other foreigners in that at least one of his parents is English. i.e. he is entitled to a British passport from birth. But there should be further rules nonetheless. Why not eligibility if resident in that country for the two years if completed under the age of 21? Surely better than an open age, and I would feel the same about any other loophole that allows a player to play for ANY country, not just England. I don't know why we are talking about this now anyway- from one club alone, Man City's Joe Hart, Onuoha, Richards, Johnson, Etuhu, Sturridge, Ishmael Miller, and Shaleum Logan will all be young and decent enough for the future anyway. All we need is the current crop to step up to their vast potential.

[monsieur rioux]

Why are we not debating the possibility of the players playing for any of the Home Nations? Why is it always 'England'?

Posted by: Dave Scott | December 27, 2007 at 10:18 AM

**********

Because FIFA's rules allow someone to play for the national team of the country in which he's been living for two years. Almunia is the player inspiring this article and he's been living in England. Therefore the talk is about England.

[Blåtiran]

Me thinks that if u've eaten marmalade regularly for like 12 years you're english!

[Willi John]

2 Welshmen already play for England - Michael Owen and Owen Hargreaves

[ptw]

Here we go again. There are NO english footballers of any consequence now, so already the master race talk about giving caps to anone - as long as he can sing 'Knees up muvver Brahn...'. As one poster above points out; why would any spaniard/italian/german etc want to take a career step-down and play for england? And for the other yo-yo, Edward, who said that 'While Scotland doesn't even stray from selecting white footballers pressure to erase the lineaments of English nationhood never lets up.' What planet are you on englishman? Imbecile. One of the first (I think) captains of the Scottish National team was 'not white'. Kevin Harper is 'not white'. Want me to continue little-englander?? Why, there's even Nigel Quashie (another who is 'not white'...)

[Dave Scott]

Please No!

1. Why are we not debating the possibility of the players playing for any of the Home Nations? Why is it always 'England'?

2. OK, given that the debate is about England, isn't it just admitting that England can't find it within themselves? But hey, let's just change the rules rather than being creative or digging deeper.

3. The worst aspect is that it ties success to money rather than anything with more integrity. Does that mean that when the money runs out, or shifts elsewhere, then we can see the successors of Shilton, Keegan and Gerrard playing as Saudi, Chinese or Libyan nationals?

[J.D.]

Yes Almunia would play for England because he can't play for Spain due to Spain's depth at goalkeeper... That doesn't mean he couldn't be a valuable asset to England's #1 spot. I think there's nothing wrong with England using foreign born players. Its about time England benefits from having EPL teams like Arsenal, with almost all foreign players. 1 of them has finally considered naturalization. There's no reason aside from some sort of 'homegrown pride' to want to leave out foreign born players who naturalize. If a player gains citizenship legally, this situation is merely a benefit of the success of the PL in attracting foreign players. I hope it happens more often.

[jae browning]

the answer for your goalkeeping woes is staring you rite in the face.ROBERT GREEN!!!!! cant understand why he is constantly overlooked.

[Benni Watson]

I see no reason why not. Its not like its unheard of, I mean France in particular comes to mind. Two of their best players of recent times were born abroad: Zidane (Algeria) and Vieira (Senegal)

In that vein, I see absolutely no reason why we should say no to using foreign youngsters who have adopted our home as theirs, at international level.

To those of you arguing against, you're blinded by some foolish national pride first and foremost; did you ever think that maybe the reason England havent won anything lately is because our players are simply not good enough?
And secondly, you fail to see what it is that makes someone English, or French etc etc. It definitely isnt whether you have family born there or not...if that were the case, I'd be Jamaican, despite never having been there. If you live in a country for a certain amount of time, and adopt the customs etc, then surely you should be allowed to call yourself a citizen of that country (btw: how many of you support Al Bangura's bid to stay in England?).

Final point; the ability of a nation to entice youngsters to adopt it as the nation they represent at international sporting level says more about the country than anything else ever could. Why would a young Spaniard (for example) ditch his heritage to play for England if he didnt feel welcomed, embraced, at home, in England?

Think about it.

[Matteo]

Well, I believe it's ok when players are relatively young, like under 20/22.. But how could Almunia, born and grew up in Spain be possibly considered to be "English"? As an Italian, I was a bit disappointed with noticing that Camoranesi (from Argentina)could not sing the national anathem before 2006 world cup matches.

[Peter from Adelaide]

Sure why not! (Rolls eyes). England have been doing it for years in cricket.

In all serious as an Aussie I hope you don't as it would be less fun to repeat the Upton Park result of a few years ago against a non representative side from your shores.

[Edward]

Clearly it makes no sense to use foreign players since international football is supposed to be about our best versus their best. It WILL happen though, since it is the next step after foreign managers, which is precisely why the anti-English press campaigned for foreign managers in the first place.

While Scotland doesn't even stray from selecting white footballers pressure to erase the lineaments of English nationhood never lets up. It's all presented so reasonably, of course, being a mere topic of 'discussion', but we know where it's leading because the internationalist 'prime directive' makes the outcome a foregone conclusion. No doubt our highly-protected neighbours will excuse themselves from following the same path and will be lauded as 'proudly independent' for doing so, where any similar show of dissention in England is quickly labelled 'inward-looking' or 'racist'.

Still - why change a winning formula? If the glory-hunting English are too greedy, too shallow and too stupid to entertain even a hint of what must follow from such an endorsement they truly deserve all they get.

[henry monono]

Jean Marie Le Pen said the national team les bleus had so many non- French Frenchmen hence they could not sing the les marseilles.Well, when they won the world cup it was all of France that gloried in their victory. With all the money foreigners are pouring into the English game it is about time the English took all of the benefit and the burden of the alien influx.

[wen]

The english are simply too proud and arrogant to let foreigners represent England.France has done it and has won the Euro Championship and World Cup.Countries like Sweden and Croatia has benefited from it.As for England they are to suffer in the future cos globolisation is the key to the future and seems like England has no future with their rigid policy and stubborness.

[Kevin]

Oh the state of English football. Let's think for a second about why Almunia wants to play for England... Casillas, Reina, Valdes, Canizares, etc. It's not that Almunia wants to play for England, rather he has no chance of ever playing for Spain.

[Graeme]

Isn't this all a little silly? At what point does England stop being England and start being a selection of people who decide to play for that club (country). I know that in the end its all the fault of FIFA but lets get a grip here.

[PAUL STOREY]

cant beleve were actually tlking about foregners 4 england almunia in goal cudicini in reserve and how about arteta in the middle

[Carlos]

If Almunia plays in the English national team it is because he couldn´t play at Spanish national team... Don´t u think?

[Manolo - Manchester]

NO!!!!
We must discipline ourselves & our 'need' to win at any/all cost.
Only players either born in or have a parentage connection with England (not with Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland - they can make their own selection decisions)should be considered for selection to any England sports team (football, RL, RU, cricket, hockey etc).
With regard to the poor current crop of English footballers, the Premiership "god" can take the credit for this situation.
I want to support England with English players; I can support my favourite Premiership club with its multi-nationals, therefore why would I bother to support another multi-national team?

[Jon, Perth, Western Australia]

Yes, let's embrace the multi-cultural premier league. it's no different to di stefano playing for two countries years ago, a canadian playing tennis for blighty, a kenyan running miles for denmark, south africans/kiwis/aussies bowling and batting for england or the all blacks enticing islanders. if it improves the team and the players show the desire to pull on the three lions, then why not? we could impose a quota - say three per outing...

[Oliver Chettle]

What would be the point of international sport if it was just about the cheque book? If it ceased to represent something different from club sport, it might as well be abolished.

[Rainman]

What makes an Englishman these days? It's more than ethnicity. Why not allow foreign-born players if they want to play for England? Clearly the current system isn't working.

[Richard]

Ironically, and probably by default, England has become a truly multicultural footballing nation, and I don't see why this should not be reflected in the England football team.
If a Spaniard comes to live in England, is subjected to the law of the land, and pays his taxes, he should also have the basic common rights, eg, eligibility to play for the national team. I think 2 years is a little early, perhaps 3 would ensure integrity.
Nationalism is a 2 sided coin, it can be great, it can be ugly. These days I prefer to view England as a club team in a world club league/cup. Much better I think.

[Eduardo Pierce]

Yes, of course the answer is yes. Other countries do it. The US would not make it if they didn't. If England would play with a goalkeeper we would win, and forgotten would be the fact that it might be a nationalized goalkeeper.

[englishman]

ask france how it is done. they have won the world cup and europe with their adopted players- Africa.

[Jamse]

This discussion belabours the issue. It will be near impossible for England to "bounce" back. How can it when all the football infrastructure is in the hands of aliens? All the viable clubs are owned and managed by aliens; the youth clubs are stacked in favour of foreigners.
My suggestion. Just as "Great" Britain gave up the Empire and Colonies, England should seriously consider giving up on respectable rating and international performance in the beautiful game.

[Asa Southgate]

Why not? Our cricket and rugby teams are certainly not adverse to it and, in the end, these players live and work in England, their children are educated here and it is likely they will spend a fair proportion of their lives here. Many may well be very fond of this nation. Taking up citizenship is enough to be regarded as English or British in every other walk of life so why treat footballers any different?

[Foz]

One key issue to remembver here is if the player has played U-17 football like Fran Merida for Spain he is tied to them for life unless at the point in time where he played for Spain U-17 he was already dual nationality with England which I doubt.

Hargreaves is not a foreigner he has an English parent and as such has always had a birth right to represent England!!!! He can't be compared to players who have no English ancestry and as such are unlikely to have supported England as kids which Hargreaves did and I think is the main concept England fans look to in a player.... They want the player to always have been an England supporter which seems a reasonable concept for England players.

[sam okoro]

I've been avoiding being the first to raise the issue of englands (a past colonial giant) inability to call on overseas born sportsmen to represent them in an increasingly globalised and space constrained world.if anybody should have won the world cup &european cup severally, it should have been england, given the relationship it has with all the commonwealth nations(IT WAS THEIR COLONIAL MASTER UNTIL VERY LATELY). It is a pity that the football experts(so called pundits) here are paid so much but become completely inept and myopic when it comes to stating the simple facts. If croatia could get a brazilian,(and beat england) france pack their National team with africans & become a permanent fixture at world cup finals, even german team is filled with austrians and whoever they can attract, just look at american sporting success(foreigner galore). I know only martin samuel would be sensible enough to raise this issue. its long overdue.this world has long headed that direction.IT IS CALLED GLOBALISATION!. I know the antagonists would come up with the [lets not exploit poor countries) argument, but the real reason is Job protectionism= english football for john bull.wakey wakey

[Abraham]

Just because Hargreaves was born in Canada does not make him Canadian.

[Lenny Gill]

The down turn in the fortunes of England has coincided with the rise of the Premiership as the greatest league in the world. What is more important? Making as much money out of football as possible or national pride? There are less and less players playing for the clubs they watched as kids, the quality is lacking, and for the sake of ruffling the feathers of a few people who berate England when they loose and clamour for the head of the manager when he has the cheek to play anything other than the tactics employed by the class of '66, lets pick a team who can actually win something. Alumnia, Merida, Pique whatever...

[DennisRichmond]

No!

[monsieur rioux]

The Hargreaves case is different; at least there's a strong family connection.

I have no complaints about playing 'foreign but England qualified' players. If one 'adopts' a new country, why not?

But to prevent abuse, REAL commitment needs to be demonstrated. Three years residency, not two. Maybe some forward commitment too, perhaps relating to contract - with a forfeit for reneging.

But take circumstances into account too. If the player marries, that might show enough commitment instead of waiting three years for example.

I'd even allow qualification where someone has already played for another NT - providing appearances did not exceed a certain figure (10 caps?) AND there's a period (2 Years?) before they can play for the adopted NT.

[alex]

Sorry to correct you, but Mérida is Spanish first and Spanish second, since it does not exist any Catalonian nationality at all, moreover, he has already played with the U-18 Spanish national squad.

[Richard Dow]

As a scot it's a bit rich with some of the guys we've played, but to have no other connection other than residency, it's a wee bit more like club football. Roll on the international transfer window. Try and play some english guys in the english premier league

[Mark Elliott]

I'm all for players of genuine top rate ability being pilfered for Team England, but please not Manuel Almunia. He's 30 years old and has about 150 professional appearances to his name, with about half being outside of top flight football.
If that's the kind of player we want to be recruiting then our national team really is in trouble.

Ben Foster may be inactive at present but he showed what a prospect he was last year with Watford and Fergie clearly rates him too. Once he's getting games at Old Trafford he'll be a fixture in the England squad, if not the team itself.

[Leticia]

If there's a foreigner as manager, why not take an spanish keeper?
Of course it's a bit different, but at the end both the manager and players are part of the national team, and once you allow a foreigner to join in the team any other foreign player can play too.

[Alan Gillespie]

Martin - there is already a non-English player prowling around in the white shirt: Owen Hargreaves. If he can be recruited, despite being Canadian-born and living in Germany, then there should be no reason for others to be overlooked.

[Rogorn]

Why would talented Italians or Spaniards want to accept adownturn in their careers and accept to play for England?

[nick]

20 years ago we laughed at suggestions that Jack Charlton (then the Irish manager) was making inquiries as to whether Robert O'Baggio and Dick O'Maradona might have a trace of Irish ancestry. Times columnist Tony Cascarino was selected on the slenderest of evidence of Irish ancestry, why not ask him his views?

That most British of institutions the M.C.C. has happily selected a number of "england qualified" players over the years particularly during South Africa's years of exile. So why should football be any different?

In the end the choice must lie with the players, Carlo Cudicini and Paolo De Canio are rumoured to have rejected overtures from the FA as they considered himself Italian but it would be remiss of Capello not to at least consider expanding his pool of available talent as much as possible.

[shorehamview]

Why not? Look at all the others that have changed countries - Deco, from Brazil to Portugal, Eduardo at Arsenal, from Brazil to Croatia, John Barnes, from Jamaica to England. These are just three players from a huge list.
It's not like it's a new thing.

[clara smith]

No.