Bride of Frankenvialli, Part II: The Sequel

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As the title implies, we offer up the final installment of our lunch with Gianluca Vialli and Frank Lampard.

Matt Dickinson drops in to celebrate Juande Ramos' first English trophy (OK, he gives kudos to Spurs as a whole: after all, it's not as if Ramos won the pitch) and we address the issue of whether we have a title race on our hands.

Bill Edgar's stat underlies just why the producer of Match of the Day is one of the most powerful men in English football. And Guillem and I do our Quick Hits thing...

Dicko and Guillem start out crucifying Avram Grant for Chelsea's poor display. While his tactics were somewhat dubious (and Chelsea were, frankly, awful) I'm not so sure. I think Grant was in a lose-lose situation with many of his choices. The fact is that Chelsea are not a well-assorted side, they haven't been since the summer of 2006 (when Ballack and Shevchenko came on board), which is part of the reason why Mourinho did not win the title last season.

We do have a title race on our hands (United are three points back and Arsenal have to travel to Old Trafford). Dicko puts 50 quid on United and I'm happy to take his challenge. Lots of things can happen between now and the end of the season, though, without question momentum has shifted.

Guillem is furious about the reaction to the tackle on Eduardo. It's not that Taylor is a bad guy, players do what they think the rulebook allows. It's just that when you go in like that, there is the potential to do damage. I tend to agree with him.

In our Lampard-Vialli chat, Luca reveals just how English football brought out the best in him. Lampard laments how some of today's young players have it a bit too easy (a sign that he's a veteran now, no longer a big kid). And both wax nostalgic at the time they shared with one Paolo Di Canio (Luca actually lived with him for a while, which may or may not explain why he is now bald).

Another plug for Bill's stat this week. It's worth listening to. As the wise man said: "QUESTION EVERYTHING"

Comments

[Ben McBride]

while eagerly anticipating and watching the recently televised Bolton vs Liverpoolzzzzzzzzzz.......... In a bar in dubai, i was disturbed by a gentleman snoring next to me. I looked over and was surprised to see none other than Guillem Balague asleep during this enthralling premiership game. He was only awoken by the cheering of Aurelio's wonder strike.

Next Time Guillem defends The mighty reds and that their football is not boring please remind him of this!

[Craig]

Macca: I suspect that has something to do with the ridiculously easy draw they consistently get in every domestic competition. Thankfully it didn't stop them getting knocked out of the FA Cup...

[Macca]

Stat for Bill

Liverpool are the first club to ever net a hat-trick in all competitions in the same season !!!

Torres v Middlesbrough - Prem
Benayoun v Besiktas - Champs League
Benayoun v Havant - FA Cup
Torres v Reading - Carling Cup
Gerrard v Luton - FA Cup

[Craig]

Adam - Wigan's track record of conceding 4 goals every game against United since being promoted would suggest otherwise :-) In fairness, it's a better run club that many in the Premiership, but I can't say I'd miss Wigan if they went down. Fingers crossed for Middlesbrough and Wigan to go down (presuming Liverpool and City have done enough to stay up already!).

[Nicky]

BENJI: I disagree because I do think that Gallas was showing how much he cares about winning; perhaps it was over the top but that is how he is as a person.

I'm not sure how you can assert that Wenger's teams have had a similar soft underbelly when they have won the Premier League 3 times and the FA Cup 4 times?

I agree with Michael, I really don't see how the team can be considered to be in crisis when they have still only lost 1 game. Over the last few weeks there's always commentary of Arsenal falling apart when we've lost the lead to United but none when United do the same.

I think Arsenal have a good chance of winning a trophy this season but if we don't then I would still be proud of them especially given their youth and how everyone wrote the team off at the start.

[Adam]

Don't get me started on Chimbonda.

A nothing club who have maintained Premier League status by being well run and not overspending. We would play good football to boot if we had a pitch upon which that were capable. (It will be fixed in the summer.)

Don't sweat it though. I hope United have to come to the JJB the last day of the season needing a win. We'll see who laughs last! Ronaldo and Nani's stepovers won't work on a pumpkin patch my friend.

[vic]

Mourinho's a strange one. He says he'll never speak about Chelsea or other clubs till he gets a new job, then we discover he's telling a journalist from Britain's favourite tabloid where Avram Grant went wrong and what he'd have done instead. Similarly there's an England player who's known to leak the goings on at his club to the same paper. I don't know what they hope to gain, their team-mates must know it's them doing it, and it's not like they need the money.

[Lloyd B]

"I think many people are missing the point we are bringing to you footballers relaxed, openly talking about issues not normally covered by other media." - Guillem Ballague.

Guillem, don't panic! The relaxed, cliche-free and creative nature of your interview format is INSPIRED and UNIQUE!

personally, i've never seen or heard a football person so chilled in front of a microphone.. i think you're proving if the interview is interesting and fun, the guests just forget they're being recorded!

i've been engrossed, anyway.. keep up the stella work guys - i rate your work highly..

[bob]

I think the Mickey Owen story in the news say a lot about modern football.

[bb]

Angus quote: the media is enough to make you wish they played all 38 games outside of England because some of the people that make their living with the most risible, basic punditry don't deserve it.

Classic!

A lot of Arsenal fans think English football is beneath them. If only the club could be transfered to La Liga I think everyone would be happier.

Everybody is being very harsh on poor old Gallas, who is following in the French footballing tradition of total selflessness, humility and loyalty. Just like loveable Pascal Chimbonda.

[Craig]

1. Gallas: culture difference or no culture difference, they guy is an idiot. He's probably the second best defender in the Premiership (behind Ferdinand, obviously), but the guy is a moron of the highest order. Defender wearing the number 10 shirt: idiot. Kicking Nani: idiot. That hair cut: idiot. Screaming at Clichy: idiot. Siding with a player who has just nutted a teammate: idiot. "Sell me or I'll score an own goal": idiot. The way he acted on Saturday was cringeworthy on a level only matched by Adebayor and Henry's dance, and Henry's show with little Theo. Believe it or not, I don't even dislike Arsenal.

2. United will win the Premiership, by around 4-6 points, as I have said all along. Arsenal don't have the quality United do and that will show in the league (just as it did in the cup).

3. Steve: you may have written a 150 word sentence but I think you might have picked up on something important. I'm not sure whether Carrick is a better player but I certainly think there is a place for him in the England side. He has a cool head and rarely loses the ball. There really is no reason why he can't improve the deficiencies in his game. I don't think it's that he lacks the engine required to go box to box like Lampard, I think it's that he doesn't have the confidence or sense of adventure. I also wish he would shoot on sight a bit more. He could definitely be a 10-15 goals per season player but he's leaving it a bit late to develop. That said, I don't think Lampard is overrated, maybe just misunderstood.

4. Adam - I'm glad we don't hear more about Wigan. They're a nothing club with an idiot chairman and they don't belong in the Premiership. I would, however, rather read editorials about how they play than listen/read about their pies every time they play a big game. Smalltime in the extreme.

[Angus]

"It wasn't a display of how much he cares, it was laughably childish and only confirmed suspicions of the fragile mental state within the Arsenal dressing room. It also made a mockery of the 'look how united we are' huddle the team so often do before/after games."

It's more of a culture shock, continental players can be prone to the eccentric and can sometimes lose the run of themselves whereas by contrast English players are generally quite bland and keep their actions in check so as not to risk straying from the british football hegemony, which is quite rigid.

You don't get as far as Arsenal have come this season with a fragile mental state or without tremendous team unity which Arsenal undoubtedly have, and anyone who thinks that this is the beginning of the end for Arsenal's title aspirations this season is, I think, pretty wide of the mark. If it's anything more than a minor setback I will be surprised.

I'm surprised that the podcast thinks in general that United have this air of having no weaknesses about them, whereas they've lost 4 times in the league, a will lose more, and arsenal have lost just the once. I think Marcotti had the right idea.

Balague and Marcotti should both be commended on their stance towards the tackle. I wasn't surprised that that would be their opinion, though. Again, I think it's a culture thing, the reaction to Taylor's tackle by the English media is quite staggering and uniquely English, to the extent where he's almost been made out to be some kind of victim. Make no mistake, the only victim on Saturday was Eduardo da Silva and his family (and his club and national teams to a lesser extent) and absolutely no one else.

Nevertheless, the mentality and approach taken to the tackle by far too many in the media is enough to make you wish they played all 38 games outside of England because some of the people that make their living with the most risible, basic punditry don't deserve it.

The approach to the game in England needs to improve if England as a national team want to improve, but it is so culturally ingrained that it will be close to impossible to change. But it is this very limited approach and lack of genuine English football thinkers to shape a generation that is bringing England down nationally, and if that doesn't change nothing will, no matter how many foreigners Wenger etc field in their sides.

[Adam]

It was really refreshing to hear so much Wigan talk on the podcast this week. Even if only used as a random example due to our habitually minimal Match of the Day screen-time.

I am a Wigan fan living in NYC and apart from match reports almost zero editorial or featured content comes out about my cherished Latics. Yet there are hourly vapid spoutings from all outlets on Wenger, Rafa and Sir Alex's dream journals and tie choices.

Oh and Bill Palacios is that good!

Gab, Scharner is a maniac and no slouch since Bruce has taken over. He keeps it together and scores VERY important goals. I would take him him over the much-lauded Samba any game of the season! When did he ever listen to Mozart while skydiving??

[Faithy]

Guillem - I read somewhere that Lampard's partner is Catalan - how good is his Spanish?

Steve - The fuss with Lampard is that whilst he may not be the best passer or dribbler in the world he has a great shot from distance. This gives his team a chance of scoring a goal without having to commit too many players ahead of the ball thus exposing themselves to a counter attack.

The fact that Frank is aware of this need for balance shows he has a good grasp of tactics which I don't hear many other English players talk about.

[lupo]

I don't get and indeed resent the attitude that the Taylor tackle comes from a uniquely British thuggish attitude to football. I've seen some appalling thuggery in Spanish football (we all remember Maradona, even Juninho). Italy has produced some notoriously dirty players, as has Argentina, even the supposed jogo bonita Brazilians put it about with gusto. Zola, Cantona, Bergkamp, Henry and many other artistes not only survived but thrived on our supposed neanderthal shores.

[Richard, Nottingham]

Gab/Gil are right. Stop defending the indefensible. It was a horrible and ferocious tackle. Nobody can prove malintent, but look again and you'll see a defender playing close to edge. Too close. It's only a game for heavens sake

And pay no heed to all of the "he's a nice guy, pussy cat really, sort of bloke" (Taylor). Who knows that ? I don't. And I'm certainly not going to take the word of some berk sat on a TV studio sofa (Hanson, Lawrenson, et al) based on their history of poor observation.

[James]

I really enjoyed this weeks lampard-Vialli interview- was probably the best I've heard on the Podcast- fun and interesting questions and great to hear Lampard talk about Mourinho's style etc. I didn't think last week's really gave you a feel for it though.

I was wondering though why do you think Man Utd are not suited to the champion's league- they have a very large squad and particularly lots of excellent central midfilders who seem to all perform equally well at the moment. Carrick and Fletcher have played extremely well in big games- Carrick was man of the match against Arsenal last year and Fletcher has been great this season. I think the key is that Ferdinand and Vidic stay fit.

[jay]

1. The injury.
While i agree that not enough has been said about how bad it was, and that we should be able to see it. Honestly, Guillem, i think its going too far to say that kids need to be show that 'this is wrong'. Diving? yes. Players get away with it, kids see that, they learn. Destroying someones leg? theres not a park in the country where kids need to be taught that this is not a tactic.
Also, i realise the debate about Wenger has been done to death over the weekend, but whilst taking Taylor to town for a moment of stupidity, we should argue the other side. Wengers' comments DO need to be shown as wrong, these mythic 'kids' do need to see that you should not say things like that. Also, this week saw a stupid tackle that was clearley not intentionally so, but that had horrible consequences. Ten days (or so) ago, we saw Arsenal players lashing out with intent against Manchester United simply for the sin of being better than them. Aside from the horrible injury, which of those is worse?

2. Gallas.
Gab, i understand what you say, about the culture difference. I understand the argument that says Gallas is a winner. But i disagree totally. A winner can have all the strops he wants away from the field of play. But where was the captain of arsenal when his team needed him? Where was the captain of arsenal to rally the players, to tell the goalkeeper that 'okay, the penalty has been conceded, but we can still save this'. While there are points to play for, a winner plays for them. Theres the great Sean Connery quote about winners and prom queens, which is not repeatable here, but the point is; If Man United now overtake them to win the title, if Gallas doesn't win....doesn't that just make him a cry baby? Don't get me wrong, it was a very funny display, but if i was an Arsenal fan i would not ant him anywhere near the first team after his displays of the last few weeks.

[Ozzy]

“Take away Lampard's legs and he's rubbish.”

I have to stand up for the Spaniard here (I’ve got a lot of training in that department). Like he said this was simply a great football talk. Complete with atmospheric clinking of glasses. By no stretch am I a strong admirer of Lampard or his skills, but it’s great to hear a weekly football conversation that is unlike any other. And Chubby Frank is not a fool. This podcast is actually conditioning me to listen to matters relating to football, I take it most would prefer completely fabricated player ratings and thoughts on Girls Aloud.

Great comments on the Man U defense. They are rock solid when all is right, maybe the best central defense out there, but if Rio or Vidic go they are in a world of trouble.

Jo, Mourinho was fired. He didn’t just pack it in, but I think the sentiment that he’s a bit flighty seems to be accurate. We’ll see how long he lasts after Liverpool knock Barca out of the Champions league 2010.

More Champions League please...

[cob]

Oh and I'm sure Guillem can fight his own corner, but I like to hear the views of Gab AND Guillem, not that I always agree with them (anything but) but because it's the only place in the British media (that I'm aware of) you can hear a foreign perspective on our football and I find it interesting - for instance the absolute chasm between British professionals and foreign commentators on the Taylor challenge.

Gab works for the BBC, has he ever tried to get a gig on the Football Focus couch or such like? British TV coverage of football (particularly and shamefully the BBC) makes we want to bang my head on the table in frustration at its dumbness and parochialism. It seems almost proud of this (Lawro) - just not good enough!

[cob]

Speaking of Lampard, his public complaining about wanting to play every game and thus pressurising his manager is yet another illustration of why people don't like Mr Ego.

It's also funny to hear what a klutz Grant is not revealing the line-up to the players till a few hours beforehand yet Capello does it and he's a genius (did Capello used to do this with his club sides too?)

Having said that before the final I'd say Chelsea fans were 50/50, with half hating Grant and wanting him out, the other half whilst not liking him willing to give him a chance, I'd now say that’s switched to 98% against. Hope Roman has someone lined up, if he insists on keeping his mate the atmos could get quite nasty.

It's claimed Ramos speaks good English, but judging by his post match interviews this is rubbish. He also has a rather unattractive squeaky voice, unlike the authoritative timbre of Jol and Mourinho, so the translator’s doing him a favour.

Seeing the pictures of various Spurs players stumbling drunk out of Faces nightclub in Essex in the company of Big Brother contestants (don't you wish you were a footballer - the glamour!) will Ramos care about this?

[kap]

Balague tells critics of the Lampard chat to "Go and read The Sun then." Would that be the same paper that the "elocuent" Lampard writes for?

I would hazard a guess that most of the listeners of this pod do so for Gab's take on things. We might not always agree with him but at least he will argue his point without resorting to such poor put downs. Balague would do well to learn from him. But then my dear old mother did say never trust a man with a beard...

[jo]

Guillem, Jose may have told you this personally, but he said the opposite frequently too, publicly and privately. He said once he had no particular desire to return to Spain, having done his time there. Now it's Jose for Barca. He said he'd never walk out on Chelsea. He did. I reckon Jose changes his mind as often as he looks in the mirror (a lot I'm guessing!) Anyway spending 7-10 years at Chelsea wouldn't have ruled out what you suggest as he'd still be a youngish chap (younger than Juande). I think retiring at 50 for a football-obsessive like Jose is as likely as retirement at 60 was for Fergie, but time will prove who's right.

Can I also say how great this blog is. Imagine the joy if the pundits on Match of the Day were forced to engage and justify the stuff they come out with. And unlike them, no-one forces us to pay for Times' podcasts...

[sam]

I don't understand the fuss about the Eduardo injury, Stuart Pearce would have run it off.

Nobody is blaming Eduardo you tabloid hacks, merely explaining why Taylor isn't a psycho to the half-wits. Also, I saw the tackle on MOTD, don't know why you're complaining about BBC censorship. Admittedly they didn't show it over and over like they do on continental TV, but then they like to zoom in on car crashes and bleeding corpses there, so no accounting for taste.

You continually coat English refs; but if they are bad where are the good ones? Spain? Italy? At least English refs are honestly bad.

How ridiculous of Guillem to criticise the help Gazza has been given, it'll be a million times more than the average person with mental problems gets, who can't get help to save their lives - literally.

Wenger is the biggest hypocrite in football.

[guillem balague]

Jo, Mourinho's dream is to jump from league to league and win titles everywhere before he makes Portugal World Champions and he retires by his 50 or so. He told me that himself and the way he planned ahead (or rather not) in his teams suggests the same.

Steve, yes what would Pele be without his goals too. Nothing I guess. How can you dismiss so quickly one of Lampard's assests. I dont think we say in any part of the interview how great he is, but I admire the fact that he is brave to talk openly about things that others footballers can't because they are not as elocuent or as intelligent as he is. I think many people are missing the point we are bringing to you footballers relaxed, opently talking about issues not normally covered by other media. Maybe we have spoilt you by having one of those almost weekly, but I think if any of you have forwarded the Vialli-Lampard interview you have missed a good football chat. Maybe it wasnt controversial enough for you? Go and read The Sun then.

[jo]

It's typical that players who have played for great managers struggle to explain what makes them great. The Spurs players explained it mainly as installing belief.

With Mourinho it seems obvious: to work for a charismatic, clever, successful manager must be fantastic. If this person is also warm and friendly and lavishes praise and attention on you, telling you you're the best in the world (even though you're a long way off), it must be inspiring stuff, especially if you're vain and dumb enough to believe the flattery (like most players are). I can't imagine going into work with Avram Grant every day stirs enthusiasm in the same way.

I also agree with Frank in dismissing the Mourinho is a short-term coach theory as rubbish. If left to himself he could have gone on to a Wenger-type longevity. What I hope he's learnt is you can be too close to players. Although JM denied it, he had obvious favourites and this must have damaged team cohesion. Ferguson and Wenger seem to have avoided this problem. You could have asked Frank about this, but as he was a Jose favourite, probably pointless!

[Benji]

P.S. Was I the only one to fast forward the Lampard bit of the pod?

[Benji]

Gabriele, how on earth can anyone even attempt to gloss over Gallas' tantrum at Birmingham? It wasn't a display of how much he cares, it was laughably childish and only confirmed suspicions of the fragile mental state within the Arsenal dressing room. It also made a mockery of the 'look how united we are' huddle the team so often do before/after games. Wenger has to take much of the blame as every one of his teams has had a similar soft under belly. His sides have always contained potentially great footballers but very weak men. Manchester United must have been laughing their heads off.

[Michael Savva]

Hi guys, first time poster here and great podcast by the way. 2 points :-
1. Well said on the horrific Martin Taylor challenge on Eduardo. You are one of the few media outlets to criticise
Taylor. The way the majority of the media went on about it, you would have thought that Taylor was some kind of victim and that Wenger was the villian.
It is a disgrace the way pundits and the media excused Taylor's challenge by saying,"he is a nice guy really" and that Eduardo was "too quick for him." Yeah sure, its Eduardo's fault that Taylor went in studs high up.
Imagine if the challenge was committed on Rooney and had the same consequences, would the media be so sympathetic towards Taylor ? Hmm i wonder.

2. Also you would have thought that Man utd already won the title according to the media since Arsenal are supposedly in crisis. I mean that is crazy.
3 premiership games ago, Arsenal and United were level on points and guess what, Arsenal are 3 points ahead 3 games later. Go figure and Arsenal are suppose to be in crisis. Were United in crisis when they lost to city ? No. Yet Arsenal are because they unluckily (ie it wasn't a free kick or penalyy )dropped 2 points at Birmingham.
Why is there such a perception that United will easily win the title despite contrary to the evidence ? I mean United are hardly invincible are they ? They have lost 4 times this seaason which is 3 more than Arsenal have.
I honestly believe Arsenal have a reasonable of winning the title on the evidence i've seen this season and that they do have a 3 point lead which people do forget.

So Gab, do Arsenal have any chance for the title or am i a deluded Arsenal fan for thinking they do ? Cheers.

[steve]

this is what really makes me mad with guys like marcotti ballague having lunch with one of the most overated players in football in lampard what is the fuss with lampard gab Guillem, marcotti and ballague are supposed to be some of the brightest people yet they think he is one of the best midfielders going, take lampards goals away from him and what does he do, Dickinson what planet are you from carrick does not offer much against teams like barca, well what has lampard done against barca, carrick has been giving no credit who has started to run the united midfield arsenal was not enough no they did not turn up did they who proved they can overpower arsenal and play great football, Carrick is teqnically more gifted then lampard and if Carrick had lampards goals he would be one of the best midfielders going.