Martin Samuel responds to comments on what you think the future holds for Avram Grant at Chelsea

When Chelsea lost the Carling Cup final and were then knocked out of the FA Cup, Martin Samuel wondered whether Avram Grant's reign has made the Jose Mourinho years look quite sane. Your comments were plentiful and varied and here Martin responds to some of the best ... and worst.

It amazes me how quickly people and newspapers flip flop. I quote an article from this website on January 31, 2008. “Avram Grant may dress like an undertaker, but the manner in which he has breathed fresh life into Chelsea’s title challenge suggests that he could easily retrain as a paramedic.” It goes on like that. Sure, it's been over a month since then but it is still funny to see. Mo.

MS: If The Times was the work of a single person, Mo, you would have a point. That piece was written by Matt Hughes. Good lad, Matt, and a fine colleague. That doesn’t mean we always agree, or take the same editorial stance. When you buy The Times you get a variety of opinions, sometimes in the same edition, let alone six weeks apart. There is no a flip flop, just the thoughts of two individuals.

Whatever we think about Grant, a fundamental issue concerns the players. People are saying he put out a weakened team at Barnsley and should not have done, but if Chelsea fans believe that Florent Malouda, Wayne Bridge, Juliano Belletti, Shaun Wright-Phillips, Michael Ballack and Michael Essien are not good enough to beat a Championship team, then Jose Mourinho shouldn't have spent so much of Roman Abramovich's money signing them. Grant selected a team of international stars who are too cosseted and well paid to display real desire. They are under-performing; not him. Blake Ezra-Cole.

MS: A fair point, Blake. The team Grant played at Oakwell should have had no trouble beating Barnsley; but, if they are not performing for the manager, it is considerably cheaper to change Grant than it is to ship out an entire first-team squad. I am not saying that is fair, but we all recognise it as boardroom thinking.

When it has really counted, Grant has failed. Many people thought that any Tom, Dick or Harry could manage Chelsea given the players and the money. They have been proved wrong. Roy.

MS: And many of those voices were around Abramovich. Shortly before Jose was sacked I bumped into a former Chelsea employee that now has Abramovich’s ear. It was particularly uninspiring afternoon at Stamford Bridge, but, even so, he was ripping into the way the team had played, saying that anyone could do what Mourinho did and that he wasn’t a proper coach. “You could send a team out like he did today,” he told me. “He has got it all out of books.” I relayed the story to another friend in football. “If it was that easy,” he said, “then why didn’t he [Abramovich’s chum] read the books when he was a manager? He couldn’t win a bloody game.” We are beginning to discover the truth of that observation. And now, gloves on for Hugh versus Levko.

It is criminal what Grant has done to Andriy Shevchenko. It seems personal. Didier Drogba is overrated and even Nicolas Anelka is getting more latitude than Sheva. Out with Grant and let us play some offense with Shevchenko as the primary striker and Drogba playing behind him and off to the side. Sheva is much more of a competitor than Anelka and Drogba combined. Levko.

Levko, what planet are you on? Anyone who has watched Shevchenko the last 18 months knows that his legs have gone. Chelsea fans wish he was the player of five years ago but even Abramovich can't turn back time. When he has played he hasn't performed or scored like Drogba and they certainly haven't showed any capability playing together. Grant has to get the Drogba spirit back if he is to have a potent forward. Hugh.

MS: It’s Hugh by a straight knockout! Personally, folks, I think Levko could have been a little punchy coming into that one.

I worry very much that Chelsea is on the verge of meltdown. Misguided leadership from the inexperienced owner, passed through the boastful and arrogant chief executive Peter Kenyon, down through the haughty and distant PR people, and out through the coaching staff. Jose was difficult at times but he was a maestro at pulling the club to success. I really can't see anyone doing the same again unless Abramovich admits he knows nothing about high level football and buys real expertise. He did not like Jose’s individual nature, but that is exactly what is required. Hugh Dickson.

MS: All great football clubs are built on the philosophy and vision of one man; almost exclusively that man has been the manager. Unless Abramovich accepts this, Chelsea will never sustain success the way that Manchester United, or Arsenal, have in recent times.

Here is hoping we don’t win the Champions League or the Premier League. Short-term I'll be disappointed; long-term it will be the best thing that could happen to Chelsea. Get rid of Grant, Frank Arnesen and Henk Ten Cate. Get a new manager and some stability back to our club. C Savvas.

Hmm. So you don't want us to win the Champions League or Premier League, so that we can get rid of the manager and get a manager that might be able to win us the Champions League and Premier League? Julius Blumfeld.

MS: Look, if you lot are going to start using the pithy forces of logic to shoot down absolutely specious arguments in one sentence, I might just as well pack up the laptop and go home. Fortunately, Julius forgot to highlight the irony of sacking the entire management, coaching and youth set-up in order to get some much-needed stability at the club. Phew. I thought I was out of a job there.

Attempting to debate rationally or logically what is best for Chelsea pre-supposes that Chelsea is run on logical or rational lines. Clearly, it isn't. Chelsea is no more than a very expensive plaything and, like any spoilt child, its owner will do as he likes - even if that means breaking it. Bill.

MS: His bottom line argument being that it is his to break, Bill, I suppose. Still unpleasant to watch, though, isn’t it?

I think Grant will be gone in the summer. He doesn't come up with the goods when it really matters and at this very demanding level, that is the difference between winning titles and losing them. Danny Coldwell.

MS: I agree. He is still waiting for his marker, the result that puts his Chelsea team on the map. There was some hope that it might be the win away in Valencia, but looking at their form since, even that wasn’t quite the achievement we thought.

Grant must go and it should be immediately. Let Steve Clarke run the team until we can get a replacement with the credentials to manage a top Premier League side. Why rest Frank Lampard at Barnsley? Mourinho played him in every game and he thrived on it. Does the current squad respect Grant? Will potential signings be encouraged by the prospect of playing for him? Action must be taken. Rick.

MS: I don’t think sacking Grant immediately is the answer but, I agree, long term there could be problems because as a coach he is not an attractive or enticing proposition. Would Ashley Cole have left Arsenal for Chelsea now? If the answer is yes, it would only be for financial reasons, not because there is any suggestion Chelsea are going places compared to Arsenal. I accept your point about Lampard but perhaps that is part of the problem, too. Despite his no-nonsense demeanour, senior players such as Lampard and John Terry got their own way with Mourinho. Terry played with injury, Lampard played without rest. That was what they wanted. It does not make it right, though, and if Grant is not respected for standing up to them, it is not necessarily him that is wrong.

Chelsea's good run of results in the first few months of Grant’s time were down to the momentum of Mourinho. Now Chelsea need active leadership, Grant is hopeless. Given the owner’s ego simply sacking him would be an admission that Abramovich doesn't know much about football, so he will probably be moved upstairs as Director of Football, dissuading quality managers from coming to Chelsea and making life very uncomfortable. Less damage would be done if Grant stayed in his position for at least another season so Abramovich can save face. He could then be dismissed for good. Gabriel Casey.

MS: Is it me or is the intrigue beginning to make this sound like one of those John Le Carre books?

I wouldn't go as far as mentioning sanity in the same sentence as Mourinho, but the talk about Grant's future, his alleged distance towards Arnesen, the suggestion that Ten Cate was asked how he felt about the possibility of eventually working with Guus Hiddink (while Grant was the manager), portrays Chelsea as a wasp's nest and increases the value of Mourinho's achievement-. Maybe that initial success made things look easy to Abramovich and his gang. Had Mourinho not won two titles in two years maybe Abramovich would still be thinking that there is more to building a successful team than money and a few hours of Football Manager? Hugo Carreira.

MS: Not to mention that every time Chelsea lose the owner is photographed at the training ground the following day looking concerned. That must really help the spirit in the camp. And now, to the second bout of the night. In the red corner, Volkan, in the blue corner, Keyser Soze (probably not his real name). A real heavyweight contest, this.

Typical comments from ungrateful Chelsea fans. What right do you think your team has to win everything in sight? Don’t forget where you were before Abramovich handed over the blank cheque. Volkan.

Typical, Volkan? Why shouldn't Chelsea fans want to win every competition? Isn't winning trophies the idea? And as for the seven seasons before Roman arrived, Chelsea won two FA Cups, a League Cup, a European Cup Winners Cup and the European Super Cup. Still, don't let the facts get in the way of your argument. Keyser Soze.

MS: “You think you can catch Keyser Soze? You think a guy like that comes this close to being caught and sticks his head out? If he comes up for anything it will be to get rid of me. After that, my guess is you’ll never hear from him again.” Much like Avram Grant, really.

Comments

[Rob]

To those who disagree with Avram Grant's appointment - surely having spent 30 years getting experience, albeit without qualification, in Israel with a clubside playing boring football and winning the occasional trophy, and then coaching the national side to conspicuous success in not quite reaching a finals tournament whilst playing more boring football makes him adequately qualified to follow in the train of one of the most sucessful manager's of our age.
Just think that in another 30 years time he may eventually turn out to be a winner.

On the other hand he may just be a front man for Roman Abramovitch's ambitions to run the team himself without all the bother of press conferences for which AG is so ably fitted. Mumble, mumble.......

Is it true that the club is going to relocate to the Whitehall Theatre? I must admit that I never thought that BRAND Chelsea would be so entertaining.

[Keyser Soze]

Great insight and very entertaining as always Martin. Keep up the fine work. I just wish I could say the same for Avram Grant!

[Filip]

Also, Martin, Real Madrid and Barcelona are not built on a vision of anyone and AC Milan are built by Berlusconi more than anyone else

[Filip]

All this 'Grant is doing well because of Mourinho' must be collective amnesia. Lets review the situation when Mourinho was sacked:
1) We lost to Villa, drew with Blackburn and Everton at home, were saved by a dodgy pen vs Liverpool and were around 7th. Also we drew at home to Rosenborg in the Champs League
2) He played Ben Haim instead of Alex. Apparently he didnt want Alex signed in the first place, because Alex made too many mistakes. Mourinho also fell out with Roman because Roman would not fork out £5m or so to have Tal Ben Haim six months earlier. Mourinho thought that Ben Haim could have really saved us last season.
3) Mourinho's excuse for early failure this season was based on him not having Lampard and Drogba. He said so himself with his 'Waitrose' comments. Well, how would he have done without them for 2 months on winter?
4) Jose put J. Cole on the bench, arguing that likes of Malouda and SWP deserved place in first 11 more than Cole. Team totally lacked imagination.
4) Jose fell out with Makelele over his involvement with France. Would Mak have been as good when this winter if Jose was still the manager?

A lot of the team's success is based on Grant doing his own thing - sidelining Ben Haim and Malouda, playing Alex, making Ballack captain (which really worked), making J. Cole comfortable as part of first 11, signing Anelka (which Jose would have never done due to Anelka's reputation). Without Terry, Cech, Lampard and Drogba Jose would have been totally lost, drawing 2:2 at home to Reading and then complaining his favourite players are injured. We would be fighting with Liverpool and Everton for 4th and would have probably gone out to Everton in the semis of Carling cup.

As for getting a quiet manager with no track record to manage a squad of stars, didn't Del Bosque win 2 Champions' Leagues and 2 leagues with Real Madrid in 4 years? His lack of previous pedigree still counted against him Every time Madrid didn't win one of the 2 big trophies, he was blamed. Every time (once a year) Real did win, everyone commented that anyone could do it with the players he had. This despite him taking over mid season from a failed big name coach, improving the team and winning the Champs League. What happened afterwards? Be careful if you think Grant's coaching team is useless. Results show otherwise.

[Lenny]

Avram Grant may not have "personality" but he is refreshingly humble in a game not noted for such rarities. At least let's Grant him that shall we?!

[Alexander]

give grant until the summer.

if we can't get a trophey, then he should go.

he guided us to the qtr finals of the champs league and we are not far from the top in the EPL. if he fails now, it's his fault. barnsley match was a appaling and unforgiving

[Rokola]

R A is not an idiot. He didn't make his money by being stupid. Eventually he'll realise that the manager makes the team.
This is how it goes:
1.) You appoint who you believe is the best manager for your club.

2.) You a. back him or b. sack him.

If b. start again.
Simple innit?

[FRANK MANU-BOAFO]

When you assemble a top-class team worth almost half a billion pounds, you need a top-class, tried and tested coach to handle them. Unfortunately, Grant does not fall in that category hence the free fall of Chelsea.

[Mike Edwards]

In my opinion Grant benefitted from the momentum built up by JM and the skills of the players. This worked until they needed the expertise and tactical guidance of a manager.It is hard to imagine Grant motivating and lifting his players, just to watch him on the touchline depresses me, if it has the same effect on the players plus his apparent tactical naivety Chelsea are in for some disappointing results

[Nicolas]

Is there a fan of any of the top 1500 football clubs in the world, who would like Avram Grant to be their manager?

[Varsi Padayachee]

Let's be candid. If grant was not Roman's friend, he would still be a backroom boy at Portsmouth. He slimed his way into Chelsea,and it was widely reported that during Chelsea's visit to the US, that Grant had told friends that he was going to help Jose manage the team. And we can all imagine Jose's response! Grant's much lauded success is based on Jose's molded team, and when he tried to get creative, which is as bland as his personality, he turned out to be a disaster. He should go back to Israel, to coach in a 3rd rate lwague