Steve McClaren: Actor Turned Critic

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Yes, the former England manager joins us for an entire show. It's a McClarextravanza! He sits in with us to talk tactics and what makes a good manager and he also stars in our Review section, helping us make sense of what happened in the most amazing FA Cup weekend in recent memory... After 18 months of being the most scrutinized man in England, the poacher turns gamekeeper and it's his turn to play the pundit.
Bill's stat doesn't bode well for whoever gets promoted from the Championship. And Guillem and I do our Quick Hits thing...

Reacting to Sir Alex Ferguson's comments after the Portsmouth match, McClaren says that top managers are terrible losers who'll conjure up any excuse after a defeat. It's part of what makes them great managers.
All hail Barnsley, Cardiff and Portsmouth who pulled off three stunning upsets. Cardiff in particular looked perhaps the most accomplished of the three (Guillem charitably points out that McPhail and Whittingham "could play in the Premiership" -- evidently forgetting that they have...). We can't forget West Brom either, though, frankly, the way they've played at times these seasons, I can't say I'm overly surprised they've gotten this far.
In our tactical chat with McClaren, Guillem asks him about United and their unusual - yet effective - "strikerless" system. McClaren credits Roma and their manager Luciano Spalletti for introducing it a few years ago. After years of stale tactics, it's nice to see a bit of a tactical innovation. If you like tactics, it's actually a fascinating discussion. McClaren also reveals how the 4-2-3-1 (or 4-5-1) formation came into being and reveals a whole series of interesting nuggets, like the fact that he believes Gerrard is really coming into his own playing in the hole behind a single striker... (funny how Benitez got slaughtered for using him there in the Champions' League final last season). Oh, and remember a few years ago when Sir Alex messed around with his formation (in the Veron days) and played a lone striker? Remember all those ex-player pundits who criticized him for not playing 4-4-2? Remember those muppet United fans at Old Trafford who chanted "Four! Four! Two!" at him? I do. And they're morons. Sir Alex told me he actually NEVER played 4-4-2. And McClaren backs me up on that. So there.
Indeed, I challenge all of you to count how many top-tier teams around Europe play 4-4-2...

Comments

[yum]

Please guys, get rid of the different guests each week. I want to know your thoughts on the week's football without you being distracted by the duller than dull guests you have on each podcast.

And on the Ferguson thing. It's easy to say he does it less than other managers, which is probably true, but only because they win more often than not. I'm sure if you look at his ratio to moaning after a loss to say,McLeish, Roy Keane etc, you'd see that he's just a very bad loser.

[TY]

If taking penalties is a lottery, how come the Germans always have the winning ticket?

I too would like Billy to investigate penalties, but more pertinent would be to find out the nationality of each penalty taker and his success ratio. Then give us a league table based on the nationality of the player rather than the team. Which nationality do you think has the greatest success rate and who'll finish bottom?

Calling penalties a lottery is patent rubbish but a lot of managers still trot this excuse out.

Taking penalties is a test of skill under extreme pressure, and it's no surprise the Brazilians and the Germans have the best record as they've won the most trophies. Guess which nation has the worst penalty shoot-out record? (Clue, most of you live there).

[Craig]

Dave: Brian Clough had charisma on a level only matched by Mourinho. He was a true one-off. Yorkshire is no footballing hot-bed and I can't think of many decent Yorkshire managers. Maybe his accent doesn't really matter, but my point was that it doesn't exactly make for captivating listening, and certainly doesn't add to his image and credibility. Mourinho sounds cool, assured and ultra-confident, that definitely helps; McClaren sounds dour and unremarkable. When Mourinho/Clough talks, people listen; when McClaren does, people don't. I don't think it's any coincidence that there's so many good Scottish managers and hardly any decent Yorkshire or Midlands managers. It's not all to do with accents but I certainly think that certain accents give off an air of credibility.

Niall: in Benitez's three previous seasons they have been playing for nothing in the majority of games. His failings are responsible for Liverpool's current situation; you cannot seriously expect anyone to believe that this guy has a well thought out plan when he turns over half his squad every year.

[Matt Riley]

+++++moved to the right podcast page, as it wasn't up on monday

Great Podcast guys...

i wanted to raise 2 points about young players.

you guys talked about inter this week, i am interested gab, can you tell us more about Mario Balotelli, i hear he is a fantastic prospect, he is certainly fantastic in the future on Football Manager :-)

also a few weeks ago you talked about Ronaldo's injury, and many criticisms have come forward about his muscle bulking as a young player, how much is this happening and should f.i.f.a be doing something about it...?

Messi for example is getting injured consistenly, and people have hinted that his own bulking as a young player may have something to do with it?

what do you guys think?

[Jay]

I would, like Ben and Jo below me, also like to know the stats when it came to English club teams along with the National teams and their records with regards to penalties. On the drive home from the Celtic game last night I switched on five live and listened to the end of extra time and penalties for the Everton and then Spurs game and both commentators refereed to the penalties as lotteries. Personally I don't think that they are and I feel that it's this attitude which has cost England games in the past. By calling it a lottery they are basically saying it is down to luck if a player scores or misses, I think its down to skill. Rudd Van Nistelrooy is not 'lucky' when it comes to taking penalty kicks he is just good, due to practice and skill! England didn't lose to Germany in Euro 96 because they were unlucky, they lost because they never practised penalties but the Germans did. If a player has practise hitting the ball from the penalty spot into the bottom left hand corner of the net then when he steps up to hit one in a match his confidence of finding the bottom left hand corner of the net will be higher. Why do some teams (in the past and perhaps even now) not consider penalty taking a skill that can be learned in training yet consider something similar, like being through one on one with the goalkeeper as such a skill?

[Ben, Tokyo]

After the disappointing exits last night via PK shootout last night I was wondering if Bill could have a look into English teams overall success or lack of in this area. Obviously England have a poor record in this regard but is this a national phenomenom? Of course it is hard to put it down to nationality given the high number of foreigners in our teams but are our teams the biggest bottlers from 12 yards?

[jo]

Penalties, why do English teams bother. They should go all out for the win over 120 minutes, and if they fail, shake hands and go home, leaving the foreign team to enjoy their inevitable victory on their own.

Does your stat man have the stats? English teams must have the worst record, which is funny really as we pride ourselves as a nation on our 'bottle'.

[dave]

I think chanting 442 is just shorthand for demanding attacking football (United's was dire at that time). And given your little homily on respect below you should look in the mirror.

"He speaks with a Yorkshire accent, not a continental one, so maybe they just don't take him seriously enough, and aren't so sure that what he asks will work."

What a dumb comment. Brian Clough was from Yorkshire. Christian Gross was continental.

[Mr. Trimby]

Like most of the population, I look forward to a chat from Steve McClaren like I would to cranial surgery. Without anaesthetic.

To be fair, Guillem's nbf was less awful when talking about things related to football and not himself. He might not be interesting, but he's worked with interesting people and had interesting experiences.

But when the subject returned to himself the old Steve we know and don't love came out. That old vacuous positivity and insincerity from a man who sounds like he's been force-fed every self-help book published and can regurgitate their contents on cue.

Can you imagine Fergie, Wenger, Mourinho, or even Benitez and Ramos, speaking in such clichés? No, because they have real personalities not synthetic ones.

[Joseph Brown]

It's funny listening to Steve talk about great managers hating to lose no matter what the competition. Reminded me of times when he spoke about how positive the performances have been in post matches interviews after England lost a friendly game. I remember thinking to myself, I don't care if it is a friendly, a top class manager would never be so positive after a defeat. An international manager only gets judged on his performance once every few months, surely in front of such a huge audience, were his reputation is on the line, he would be much more upset with the result. I can't help but think such a relaxed care free impression had a detrimental affect on the players.

It was interesting to hear McClaren talk about interchanging players and formations, but his England teams most obvious shortcomings were in off the ball movement and giving away possession easily. Perhaps if he had focused more on maintaining possession and making the opposition work hard to win the ball back he wouldn't be sat at home waiting for the phone to ring.

[Aidan]

Hi Gab

After Italy had beaten Scotland at Hampden Park, you were going to mention something about Capello's co-commentary but ran out of time. I was just wondering whether you could expand on that here. In England, I think the best television pundits have been / are managers themselves - Gordon Strachan and Martin O'Neill are two that spring to mind - rather than the myriad of ex-players, most of whom haven't been on a coaching course in their lives.

Also - Javier Zanetti aside (as always) - I was really disappointed with Inter last night. They played in straight lines in a 4-4-2 formation and kept hoofing the ball to Zlatan and Cruz. They missed a player reminiscent of their manager I thought. Hopefully the future of Italian football is teams like Roma and Fiorentina with younger players, more homegrown players and more tactically versatile coaches.

[David]

Gab, I don't doubt macs tactical knowledge or team selection. As I said earlier I actually agreed with many of the sides he picked. Many pundits said he did not so I decided to look at an other option. I looked at how the players seemed lost and clueless. You could argue that English players are not the most tactically shrewd, but many have played well in these systems for their club sides.Then when listening to the pod I thought maybe it is due to communication as I found him talking about tactics boring, and when ever managers like wenger and moyes talk about them I really enjoy it.So I wondered wether this applied with the players, who do not respond to macs style at all.

[Gabriele Marcotti]

Craig - You're spot on. Tactics are fare more evolved, to say that United plays 4-4-2 with Ronaldo as a rightwinger is close to meaningless. Regarding McClaren, yes, communicating your ideas effectively to your players is crucial. I don't think a Yorkshire accent is the problem, it's about having players who want to listen (and are intelligent enough to understand), plus you have to be able to get your message across.
Regarding Ibrahimovic, I have long held the view that he bottles big games and that some of the praise he gets is a bit over the top. I think people get excited by the potential. You can see - you could see it last night even, although he was awful - that he was probably better technically than any other player on the pitch. The problem is what you do with that technique. And he only shows glimpses. I'm not his biggest fan -- at all.
As for MIlan, their priority is - always - winning the Champions League. They built a team to do that. I think they were short-sighted, but you can't argue with their Champions' League results. Now however, the chickens have come home to roost and they have a major, major rebuilding job.

[Niall]

"He's playing with fire, and if Liverpool get knocked out in the next round his team will be playing for nothing for the last couple of months of the season again."

'Again' Craig? Are you sure? In all of Rafa's previous seasons Liverpool have had something to play for during the last couple of months, either the Champions League or the FA Cup. To dismiss him as lucky is typical of the myopic view of many football observers.

Once something, no matter how incorrect, is said often enough it becomes accepted knowledge. "Why doesn't he play Torres every game?" is another example. Torres has, in fact, been rested only twice in the league this season. Ronaldo has been 'rested' for three games.

On the other occasions that he didn't make the team he was either injured, or coming back from injury. To listen to the punditry, and commentary that surrounds Liverpool you'd think that they'd be challenging for the league if only Rafa selected Torres for every game.

Liverpool's problems are numerous, some are Benitez's fault. It would be refreshing if they were discussed more than the same myths being spouted ad nauseum.

[christopher spicer]

Do you have any more info on Henk Ten Cate? He sounds bonkers (went to Chelsea for a quiet life indeed). Who's running that asylum?

Re Fergies rant, a senior football correspondent from England's poshest broadsheet actually said on radio that obsession with referees was an English thing, and abroad they accept refereeing mistakes with a philosophical shrug. The presenters didn't contradict him. I hope this level of ignorance isn't typical of football writers in this country but I fear it might be. How has he spent thirty years reporting football around the world and come to that conclusion (by living in an English-bubble presumably).

What's your biggest example of stunning wrongness by a football reporter.

[robert dewick]

Gab, when you say you have stories about Nani you can't repeat, are they personally salacious, or Moggi type stuff? Bit more info on him please: good, mediocre or bad?

Also, it's often said that the English are very conservative, but if you look at Hawkeye, and indeed other sports were the English have a bigger influence, they are far more open and progressive than football, where it is non-anglo reactionaries like Blatter and Platini that hold back innovation. Why do we need their permission to use it anyway? I remember the USA used to play their own version of soccer with no draws allowed, with no objection from Herbert Lom and crew.

[Robert]

How did the pair of you keep a straight face talking tactics with McClaren? Watching his England teams I would have guessed that he thought tactics were little mints.

And sorry but Ferguson is being disingenuous if not deceitful in claiming United have never played 442. Yes, we have always had a clever striker that can drop off but I don't ever remember the likes of Cantona, Yorke, Sheringham being played wide left like Rooney often has had to. Ferguson, McClaren and it would appear you two insult the intelligence of fans in suggesting that we are not qualified to understand such high brow tactics. The fact is United won the Champions League playing open attacking football and since United adopted the cautious one up front continental style game we haven't looked like winning it again.

As a United fan I think Fergie is an all time great. However his strength has always been in keeping things simple and man management. He is no tactical wizard, every year we see the proof in Europe. Most United fans would say that he confuses tinkering with tactics. But then we're probably all to stupid to understand eh?

[Craig]

Hi guys

I must say, it was very interesting to hear some debate about tactics, and I think it's interesting that you picked up on something interesting about United's tactics and 4-4-2. It seems that when there's a game on TV, the pundits instantly look to the pre-match team sheet and try and organise it into a flat 4-4-2 formation, regardless of the players on there. At best, they can strech to 4-3-3 or 4-5-1, but they think 4-5-1 is defensive and 4-3-3 is the sole preserve of Jose Mourinho's Chelsea. You're quite right, Manchester United don't play 4-4-2 even when Rooney and Tevez are both playing. For starters, Ronaldo rarely plays on the right, even if that it his starting position. He switches with whoever is playing on the left or drifts into the centre for long periods of the game. Rooney's average position is probably much deeper than Ronaldo's, playing more like a midfielder (depending on the game, of course; sometimes he does play genuinely as a lone striker), and Tevez is fairly similar in this respect. Evra and whoever is playing in front of him frequently switch, with Evra attacking even more than the likes of Cafu and Roberto Carlos (who were seen as wing-backs, rather than full-backs). If Paul Scholes is playing, although he is usually seen as an attacking midfielder, this is a thing of the past; he plays very deep now. Hargreaves probably does more work shielding the "full-backs" than the centre-backs, as is often perceived to be the case. Professional football formations are far more complex than you can possibly depict on one sheet of paper.

It was also a very interesting interview with McClaren, he does come accross as very tactically astute, but when it comes to management, it seems that it's as much about getting the players to believe in you as it is about knowledge. Players know that if they do what Mourinho, Benitez (in Europe) or Capello tell them, they will be successful, and that sort of belief makes their job easier. The more success the players experience, the easier it becomes, and the more they trust you.

It's much easier to do this when you can point to several league championships, a European Cup etc; your words carry much more authority. Moreover, it's much easier when you have the charisma of a Jose or a Capello, and you're able to captivate your audience every time you open your mouth. McClaren doesn't have a particularly inspiring record to boast, and he's not charismatic. He speaks with a Yorkshire accent, not a continental one, so maybe they just don't take him seriously enough, and aren't so sure that what he asks will work.

Guillem, please, please, please for the love of God, will you shut up about Liverpool? Rafa is a very, very lucky man. Had Marco Materazzi not been sent off for nothing then he would most likely be out of a job by now. As we well know, a slice of luck can have a huge impact on a Champions League tie, and once again Rafa got that luck. He's playing with fire, and if Liverpool get knocked out in the next round his team will be playing for nothing for the last couple of months of the season again.

Gab, am I missing something RE: Ibrahimovic? It seems that every time I see him play he is absolute garbage, yet he's consistently labelled a "world-class" player. Most of my perception of Italian teams comes from the Champions League, admittedly, but his consistent failure to produce the goods on that stage, or for Sweden, would suggest that he's nowhere near world-class.

On another Italian football issue, do you expect an overhaul and AC Milan now? Or are they going to put their eggs in the Kaka/Pato basket? It appears to me that playing with a squad of ageing, albeit quality players has been a risky policy for some time. Judging by their failure to compete for the Scudetto for some time now, quite a few of them aren't capable of producing the goods week-in, week-out, and everybody knows you need luck to win/do well in the Champions League. Do you expect Ancelotti to step down or be sacked, or will he carry on?

[Gabriele Marcotti]

1. Brendan - You make a good point. It shoudl also be noted that when Sir Alex moans about referees it gets a lot more attention (because it's United) than if, say, Gareth Southgate does it.
2. David - I can assure you that McClaren was far from unenthusiastic when he was talking. I guess some people's voices sound a certain way on radio. Did he have communication issues with his players? i don't know. I would hope thought that if you're a professional football and this is your job, you'll listen to what your manager is saying even if he's not the most entertaining communicator in the world.
3. Richard - That was exactly what we were trying to do. McClaren has been caricatured every which way. In fact, he does have a strong tactical mind and, I think, it's fascinating to listen to him. You can make up your own mind about him as a manager. Personally, and I've been on the record saying this many times (I'm not about to take it back just because he was kind enough to grant us an interview) I don't think his record with Boro was as good as it could have been. Yes the cup runs were good, but with all the money spent on the side it was reasonable to expect more than one top 12 finish in five years. But managers know they're judged on results and I think McClaren is open about that.
Beyond that, the "Wally with a Brolly" thing is just idiocy. You can criticize a manager's record - everyone is entitled to their opinion - but, I think you still need to respect the person and the person's work. Especially when that person has behaved with dignity and respect throughout his professional career.

[Richard, Nottingham]

It was a interesting interview with McClaren fellas. All the better for having intelligent debate and not focusing on his time with England. He had interesting things to say "front 4 become flexible", "midfield area is the key", "exploiting the space in front of defenders", etc. And he's exactly right. No ? Tactically he is astute, and not just some "wally with a brolly", although others will point to his failings with England to counter that. Thanks for giving us the opportunity to make our own minds up.

Guilem, Inter are one of the true global giants of club football. And there aren't many them. And, like it or not, catenaccio is a part of football. It's too bad Steve McClaren didn't know how to coach it (for the Crotia game).

[David]

Listening to this weeks pod I think I have a theory as to why Mcclaren might be a poor manager, and it is down to communication. I had problems staying awake during Macs talk which is odd considering I usually really enjoy the tactical descussions on the show. The reason I found it hard to stay awake was purely down to mac's dour unenthusiastic monotonous tone. Now I wonder if our players who are not known for being particularly interested in tactics just drift of during tactical sessions. With out this ability to communicate with your players well you will struggle as they will not be able to do what you want from them. When I look at his England He at times did try different formations but to players did not know how to play in them, surely a good communicator would be able to explain how to do so more effectively.

[Brendan]

Just a quick word about Bill's claim that Sir Alex moans about referees less frequently than other managers.

I'm sure in aggregate there are many other managers who complain about refereeing more frequently than Sir Alex. However, that is in large part due to the fact that results go against United far less often than they do against most other managers - and after all, it's terribly bad form to berate a ref after you've won the game. Even Jose managed to avoid that faux pas for the most part.

If you were really trying to decide who is the biggest moaner among Premiership managers, the correct way to do it would be to compare the ratio of the number of post match moans to the number of games in which the result went against the manager's team.

I'd guess Fergie is in a class of his own in this respect in the post Mourinho era. Wenger is a big moaner too, but he usually prefers to blame the pitch or the opponent's "negative football" rather than the ref.