Boing Boing: Tony Mowbray's Here!

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Who better to discuss the FA Cup semi-finals than a man who was involved in one just 48 hours earlier? Yes, Tony Mowbray, the West Bromwich Albion boss, whose side are wowing the critics in the Championship, is on board this week.
Mark Chapman also joins us to go over events in the Premier League, with Arsenal and United both dropping points. And, with Mark around, we take an overdue look at Serie A (Liga fans be patient ... we'll be reviewing events in Spain next week).
Plus, Bill's stat answers a question I had posed him some time ago and, of course, we do some Quick Hitting...

I hadn't spoken to Tony Mowbray before, but I was, frankly impressed. He seems to be a man on a mission, determined to play football a certain way, something he did at Hibs with so much success. Just as important, he believes in developing players and if you look at the number of Hibs and West Brom alums who've moved on to the highest level, it's quite a group. He doesn't make excuses, he doesn't buy into this issue that to get out of the Championship you have to lump the ball and have a bunch of Robocop players running around. He takes his inspiration from the best and, in my mind, that's the way to do it.
Guillem's in fine form and accuses Manchester United of being somewhat tactically naive, raising the ire of Bill and Mark. I think Guillem's being a bit unkind, if anything United were a little too tactically savvy in Rome (playing Wayne Rooney as an auxiliary full back ... wonder where they learned that?). We credit Boro for their fine record against the top four, though I can't help but wonder why they can't do it against the other 15 Premiership clubs.
Guillem reckons Arsenal's recent disappointing outings are a function of their lack of a Plan B. It's the old chestnut, "Arsenal are too pretty". He may have a point, but I rather feel they're really missing Rosicky and Van Persie (the real Van Persie, the one who's fit and dynamic, not the Van Persie who's just back after six months out). Mark points the finger at a lack of leadership which, with a young side, is inevitable I guess.
Please join in the discussion below. You can comment on anything, even Quick Hits. Just please take it easy on pumping Guillem for info on Liverpool's new signings...

Comments

[SHEA]

Guillem,
I do agree that Barcelona are well equipped to score goals against United and you could toss a coin to see who will win either semi final However, on current form and with Vidic back i would fancy United to be more likely to obtain a clean sheet than a Puyol less Barcelona.
I think the reslut of the tie could well depend on the inclusion of Tevz and Nani with both Ronaldo and Rooney. Fergies team look a far more fluid team with this system and I dont think going to the Camp Nou to defend and try to nick one will reap any kind of positive result for Utd. United need to go for the throat and prove to Europe they are not just a potentially great team but a team with a very good claim to being Europes greatest. If they do play 4-4-2 i think we will be in for a great game.

Viva Ronaldo

[guillem balague]

Shea, good points in your post but we wont pick much of an argument if I say all the time how brilliant Manchester United is. The table says it all and the fact that they are in the semis of the Champions League suggest a maturity to their game. They are clearly one of the top teams in Europe and clearly superior to Liverpool at the moment. But Arsenal showed that they can be beaten and there are holes to their game, no team is perfect. Now, I don’t hear anybody talking about those ‘holes’. Those weaknesses are debatable and to create that debate I prefer to point them out than to add to the crowd of commentators in love with United. Roma did not exploit them partly because they did not have Totti and Roma without Totti is Marcotti without a rant. I do believe Barcelona can see those tactical naiveties and that they will make life difficult to United. The problem is Barcelona’s defence make them a very vulnerable team so it could be a matter of the team making less mistakes will be the one going on in the competition. Finally, don’t take predictions seriously!

[Bush]

Marcotti - Actually the eating was more relating to your comments on last weeks show that managers who worked under Ferguson hadn't won anything when they have, although I did make the 70 point along the way.

I don't think I am comparing people who were at a certain club, at a certain moment in time when something truly revolutionary happened with people who worked with one of the greatest managers in the game over 30 year career. I think you are.

Managing a national team as a sole achievement was weak in the context of your argument and detracted from the greater achievements highlighted in your point.

In the article that came up with the 70 figure a mention was made to Brian Clough and his apparently significant legacy which was bettered by Sir Al's. In my orignal post I did attempt an appeal to the better nature of Lord Edgar of Statfordshire to seek a definitive answer to this figure in relation to the achievements of others.

Apples and Oranges are pretty similar when you compare them to the physics of a vibrating string ;)

[Gabriele Marcotti]

Bush - You cite that during Sir Alex's long career, 70-odd of his former players and staff went on to manage at some level. And you advise me to "eat that".
That's wonderful. But it has nothing to do with the original point.
You're comparing people who were at a certain club, at a certain moment in time when something truly revolutionary happened with people who worked with one of the greatest managers in the game over 30 year career. I don't see how that can be anything BUT apples and oranges.
The only reason I made the distinction between McClaren and Van Basten/Donadoni is because you said managing a national side is "weak".
I don't think Sir Alex's legacy is unremarkable or contemptible. But I don't see how a sane person can begin to compare the two points. And, frankly, how are we even supposed to know if 70+ is a little or a lot. Do you have any frame of reference? Does anyone?

[Shea]

Guillem,
Will you ever give Manchester United credit for the great season they are haveing? You doubt them every week and alwsays seem to find a way to slate ferguson and his squad. Afetr you predicted a victory for champions league 'favourites' Roma, United despatched of them with relative ease. With the 'tactically naive' ferguson playing a master stroke by changing his system in Rome to exploit the gaps later in the game.
Also Uniteds 'weak defence' kept a clean sheet at home to Roma and saw off Arsenals title challenge. The midfielders who cant tackle such as Hargreaves, Carrick and Anderson have all had fantastic seasons and all win their fair share of balls. Add to these facts that United have proven themselves time and again in the big games beating your beloved Liverpool twice with Torres firmly tucked in Rio's pocket, 4 points from Arsenal and a home win so far vs Chelsea. Despite this fantastic big game record, you still scoff at Uniteds champions league chances and insist that the very average Barcelona team are very happy to play us. I just hope your prediction is as successful as your Roma one. PLease let me know your thoughts on the points i have raised.

Viva Ronaldo!

[Joseph]

Gab, I understand that it wasn't you that was referring to the strikers from "mid-tier teams" - it was Mark Chapman. I wasn't criticising the Italian national side, more questioning Milan and Inters policy of not pursuing these players ahead of Braizilians. I'm sure Mario Balotelli and Alberto Paloschi have lots of potential, but I don't think it's worth getting carried away with them just yet, just like I'm not going to get carried away with the potential of Theo Walcott. Also, which Milan team are you referring to when you refer to the Milan that became European Champions? It's my understanding that Dida was the only Brazilian that played the 2003 Champions league final (compared to 6 Italians), and Dida & Kaka were the only Brazilian starters in the 2005 final (compared to 7 Italians). I'm not going to argue that Brazilians don't add something extra to a team, but in my opinion, a large foreign group from one particular country can upset the balance in a dressing room. The Milan teams that have won the Champions league previously have been based around a strong Italian presence but complimented with a few foreign players. So why isn't Berlusconi replacing the aging Italians such as Nesta, Maldini, and Ambrosini with Italian players?

[Bush]

Marcotti - I am not and never was trying to find another eleven that has produced so many "managerial successes" so you can keep your doubt and save it for someone who cares (anyway surely success is a subjective thing which is why suggested sticking to silverware in the first place :P). Maybe you should try and find another eleven if it turns you on that much. It's funny that by the standards of your 1st post McLaren coaching England qualifies but by your second post you've conveniently moved the goal posts NOT that I'm having this argument with you I'm just making an observation. BTW I don't know in which parallel dimension Steve Coppell worked under Sir Alex (strange question) but when I wrote Steve Coppell in my last post I meant Steve Bruce (not that you were supposed to guess that).

If as you say Ferguson's legacy (thus far) is so unremarkable (and apparently contemptible even to mention) given the length of his tenure then why don't you produce some statics to back up your assertion :P

[Ber]

Guillem, i know you're sick of this question and you can't really answer it. But i'll ask anyway :). Would that player Rafa has "signed" be Aaron Ramsay by any chance? Not English i know, but maybe you got mixed up.

[Gabriele Marcotti]

Joseph - The two guys we're talking about are Mario Balotelli and Alberto Paloschi. They are 17 and 18 respectively! They look very talented, but they are just kids. The mere fact that they've started Serie A games is a testament to their potential. But, unless you have a freak of nature like Rooney, you're not going to start him in the CL at that age, are you? And, BTW, they're already at big clubs (Inter and Milan)
Regarding Milan, I agree that age is a major concern and they need to do some serious rebuilding. Ronaldinho is a calculated risk, but, given that he's 28, possibly one worth taking. I don't see how or why it matters whether or not they have Italian strikers. Gilardino is going through a rough patch, but I imagine he'll stick around. And, as I said, Paloschi is coming through, though I imagine he'll be loaned out so he can mature properly.
BTW, having a large amount of Brazilians didn't stop Milan from becoming European and World champions, did it? What more do you want?

[Michael Antony]

Hi Gab, could you please tell me the likely destination for Amauri this summer? And why has this player not been more hyped in the past; why has he got to the age of 27 and we're only just hearing about him in this country?

Also Guillem, I've seen links with LFC to Lahm and Modric recently, are these players that Rafa is considering adding to his squad this summer? Modric may be a little expensive, so I wouldn't think Hicks would release the purse-strings (although he'd be a brilliant addition maybe coming in off the left-side of that 4-2-3-1.) Lahm is a world class full-back that Rafa must surely be considering; is it correct that he'll only cost somewhere between 8-11 million pounds?

Many thanks.

[guillem balague]

Alex, Laudrup has been approached by 5 clubs and one of them is Barcelona. He will not stay at Getafe and even the chairman admits so. But someone at Chelsea, one of the decision makers, has told me they have not contacted him.

Tom Hicks, Rafa is planning without thinking about what might happen. By the way, I am convinced the situation will not be completely resolved in less than a year, if not more. So why worry?

Craig, the reason why Alex Ferguson plays the same back four is because of injury to Gary Neville and because he doesnt trust the rest of his defenders. There is a huge jump between Vidic and Ferdinand and the rest of centre backs (shame Pique wants to go feeling he has not been given a proper chance to show that he can reduce that gap)

[Joseph]

Gabriele, you spoke about the Italian national side upcoming strikers, but my question is: If all these great young players are coming through, why did Inter play a side without a single Italian player in the return leg of the Liverpool champions league match, and why with such an old team, is AC Milan being constantly linked with foreign players (particularly Brazilians)? These are suppose to be Italys strongest clubs. So why aren't these players getting bought up in the same way that Manchester United snap up all the young English talent as soon as possible.

I'm a bit concerned with Milans over reliance on Brazilians. It hasn't been a particularly great year for Europes Brazilian forwards. With Berlusconi looking to add Ronaldinho to Pato, Ronaldo and Kaka, it will be hard for a young Italian striker to break into the first team. They seem to have lost all confidence in Gillardinho, so it looks like Inzaghi is likely to be the only Italian presence amongst a foreign legion.

Past experiences, such as the one at Real Madrid a few seasons ago (which involved Brazilians), have shown that a large foreign group from one particular country can upset the balance in a dressing room.

[Alex]

Hi Guillem,

As a Chelsea fan I have been left a bit underwhelmed by Avram's style of management. Although you can't really complain about his record, he has not done too well in the games that really matter (Arsenal apart). There have been mutterings that we have approached Michael Laudrup about taking over next year, given his connections with Arnesen this is quite believable, do you know if this is true? Or is it merely paper talk putting two and two together?
Cheers, keep up the good work!

[Ber]

"Ber - You have to work your way up? If anything, it's the opposite in England, especially in recent years. Ancelotti and Donadoni both started in the third tier. Van Basten was an assistant and youth coach for many years. Gullit started in the top tier (but that was in England). Strachan started in the top flight. Hughes started from Wales and jumped straigh to the Premiership. Southgate started in the Premiership. Keane started in the Championship (albeit at a big club and with lots of money tospend). Bruce started in the second tier. In fact, I can think of only one manager who got his start in Serie A with almost no experience: Mancini. Everyone else either worked their way up or was an assistant or youth coach."

Thats fine Gab, but they were still given that chance at a top club. Purely in my opinion, based on their names (see Rijkaard).

What chance has Mark Hughes got of ever landing a job at one of Europe's top teams? Very little, they just won't take the chance on them. Even though he's doing a great job.

But i'll concede defeat on this one as it's kind of hard to argue the numbers.

[Gabriele Marcotti]

Bush - Being Italy or Holland manager may be "weak" to you, but Donadoni and Van Basten got their sides to Euro 2008, something which can't be said for Steve McClaren (another one of Sir Alex's footbalilng offspring). (BTW, in what parallel dimension did Steve Coppell work under Sir Alex?)
Bottom line, I think we're comparing apples and oranges here. The basic point is that of the eleven starters in the 1989-90 Milan side under Sacchi, five have managed at the highest level (Rijkaard, Van Basten, Ancelotti, Donadoni,Gullit), one became a highly respected director of football (Giovanni Galli), one is a highly decorated assistant (Mauro Tassotti), two are youth coaches (Baresi and Evani) and another two are still playing professionally (Costacurta and Maldini). I doubt you can find any XI which produced so many managerial successes. And I would suggest a lot of had to do with the fact that they worked under Sacchi who was pretty much the last great tactical innovator in the game. They didn't all follow what he did, but he influenced all of them and forced them to think about the game differently.
With regard to Sir Alex, you've produced this 70+ figure which is great, but you're talking about a 35 year coaching career. Which is why it's very much apples and oranges, as I pointed out.

[Bush]

Razorman - if you think that about a poxy fantasy football league team that's just a bit of fun what is your opinion of betting on football matches when you are not betting on the team you support? Following your logic surely that must some kind of sacrilege beyond redemption. What about people who place large sums of money on teams they couldn't give a red baboons bottom for when the team they support is going into administration? Death to good for them? Fantasy teams are just a bit of fun, they're not addictive, they don't make anyone bankrupt, they don't bring people to lie to their families, they don't cause families to break up or put them in poverty and grown men don't spend all day chain smoking in fantasy football shops drinking Super T going blind staring at myriad screens for 14 hours.

[Bush]

Italy manager? Holland manager? Weak. Stick to silverware. Any bum chum can scab a job of a mate Marcotti. So that's 3 and granted they are an impressive 3 I'll give you that but there is something to be said for inspiring others also to pursue their passion and Ferguson has done so prolifically. Over 70 :P

Will Keane, Hughes, Bruce, Coppell, Ince etc get the chance to manage a top club and maybe get their hands on some of the tastier silverware? I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Anyone who criticizes Keane and Quinn's spending obviously wasn't paying attention to the Edgar dude when he unleashed his stat about spending the dosh to stay at the party which Keane and Quinn have done and are soon to reap the rewards.

[Tom Hicks]

Guillem,we LFC fans will concede defeat in trying to get any more info out of you on this new player Rafa has signed. I hope Lee Cattermole will be very happy at Anfield ;-). I was just wondering whether Rafa's transfer plans this summer are dependent on whom the club owners may be? That is, that say if the DIC were at least 50% owners by June and making funds available, whether Rafa would have transfer targets of a higher calibre than if the club were still owned 100% by Gillett/Hicks. For Example, this could be the difference between perhaps buying an average player or someone like David Silva for Liverpool's left side. I know you'll ignore this question though, because you always avoid the Rafa questions on this page.

[jj]

the EPL is so damn over rated its disgusting. Do any of you people watch what is happening in SERIE A. Every week seems to bring a spellbinding encounter. The Palermo - Juventus game last week could contend for game of the season in any league

[David]

I would disagree that when Hughes arrived at Blackburn they were a mid table side, the previous season under Souness they only just survived and when he arrived they were tipped for religation by many. Through an excellent buying record and sound tactics they are now a solid top half side. Roy Keane in a similar position with a only marginally worse squad spent more money than Hughes had on generally bad players. This and and some other bizarre decisions have made me question his managerial skills. I feel the need to air my views because the media do not seem to and keep praising him. Personally I think they will not criticise him for fear that he might turn on them like he does anyone who criticises him.

[Gabriele Marcotti]

Ber - You have to work your way up? If anything, it's the opposite in England, especially in recent years. Ancelotti and Donadoni both started in the third tier. Van Basten was an assistant and youth coach for many years. Gullit started in the top tier (but that was in England). Strachan started in the top flight. Hughes started from Wales and jumped straigh to the Premiership. Southgate started in the Premiership. Keane started in the Championship (albeit at a big club and with lots of money tospend). Bruce started in the second tier. In fact, I can think of only one manager who got his start in Serie A with almost no experience: Mancini. Everyone else either worked their way up or was an assistant or youth coach.

[ALEX NATHAN]

Another example - Gareth Southgate.
Another example - Chris Coleman.

[ALEX NATHAN]

Ber - Roy Keane was given his job "without doing much". It's far too simplistic to say "in England you have to work your way up". It's much more of a case-by-case basis. There are some ex players that have the right qualities to manage, and so gambles are taken on them. Others have to do more to prove themselves. That applies to all countries.

David - I agree that Keane has bought bad players, but I'm not sure abotu comparing him to Hughes. Maybe I'm overestimating Blackburn's pulling power, but I'd imagine it's easier to sign decent players when you're a mid-table Premiership side than a relegation contender with a strong chance of going down.

The fact that Roy Keane made some bad signings doesn't make him a bad manager. All managers have signed players that didn't work out quite the way they intended. It happens. But Keane - who is still learning - has staved off relegation with a very bad team, which must be applauded. As for now though, surely the jury is still out on his managerial ability.

Oh and as a note, though I agree that Hughes is decent, his record isn't actually that good.

[David]

I would like to back up my point about Keane being bad at signing players by comparing what he spent at sunderland in his 2nd season with what mark hughes bought in his second season in club management in 2005/06. Where he bought the likes of craig bellamy who had his best ever season at the club as well as the likes of Ryan Nelson for hardly anything. Why did Mark Hughes in only his second season in club management spent his money so well and roy Keane with the same experience spent his so badly. The obvious answer is that Keane is not a good manager and Mark Hughes is in my opinion, after David Moyes the best young British manager around

[Ber]

Gab, there's nothing wrong with your argument on the success of Sachi's former players. But they were given jobs at top clubs without really doing much, whereas in England you have to work your way up. Making it much much harder.