Debate: Should the Welsh national anthem be played at Wembley?

Cardiff City will be given a wild card to play in Europe if they win the FA Cup Final against Portsmouth, Uefa says, which is only fair. As the problem of Cardiff’s entry as an English club was initially created by European football’s governing body - which outlawed it in 1994 - it is only right that it, not the FA, should have to come up with the solution.

Meanwhile, Rhodri Glyn Thomas, the Welsh Sports Minister, is first on the bandwagon with the demand for the Welsh national anthem, Land of My Fathers, to be played alongside God Save the Queen at Wembley on May 17, as if this were an international fixture, not the final of the English FA Cup, a tournament Cardiff require special dispensation to enter. If the FA stands for this one, it may as well hand over the keys.

Watch and savour Katherine Jenkins singing Hen Wlad fy Nhadau (Land of My Fathers) then let us know if you agree in the comment box below.

Comments

[Mark]

They are playing in an ENGLISH competition, not a WELSH one.

As such they should accept that the anthem played will be appropriate to that, and not the teams competing.

If they want the Welsh anthem they should play in the Welsh cup.

[Guto Llewelyn]

I'm a Swansea fan, and am not happy that Cardiff have made it this far.

The easy answer is to not play either anthem! If that turgid excuse for an anthem (GSTQ) is played, then the Cardiff fans will boo it!
If Hen Wlad fy Nhadau is played, it will be booed!

The two countries hate each other, and we Welsh are getting pretty fed-up with the English royals!

For the sake of the final, don't sing it. If I was English, I wouldn't want Hen Wlad fy Nhadau being played, but I would recognise the need for neither anthem to be played.

[Karl Chads]

Instead of the English anthem? No.

Additionally? Possibly. But probably not, because Cardiff City are competing in the English Football Association's cup. If it was in the Welsh FA Cup, then fine, but it's not.

[Richard]

I didn't think the football types actually knew the words of Hen Wlad fy Nhadau. The teams (including the national team) never seem to, so why bother playing it?

[Eni]

I'm not a big fan of GSTQ and quite like land of my fathers, but there is absolutely no need to play the Welsh National Anthem during the ENGLISH FA CUP final. Besides, GSTQ is the BRITISH anthem, a song of allegiance to the BRITISH monarch and head of state, and so until Wales becomes a Republic, the damn tune applies to them like the rest of us. If it offends their welshness so much, they should drop out of the competition. Next thing you know, we'd have to play the national anthem of each player on the field and every nation taking a live feed of the match.

[nick]

sorry to poor some more water on the flames of incitement but this is the official position of cardiff city fc (as stated by ridsdale today):

“We are proud and privileged to be there at Wembley and we will follow the protocol of the occasion, as teams do at every cup final.

We will not be making any representations to the FA. Anything they deem is appropriate at the FA Cup final is under their jurisdiction"

dont worry martin we dont expect an apology.

[Huxley]

Posted by - Alistiar Ewan "Sorry little Englanders - "God save the Queen", quite apart from being a dreadful dirge, is a rabidly anti-Scottish anthem. It has no place as a UK anthem."

Doesn't the same hold true for 'Flower of Scotland' which could reasonably be described as 'rabidly anti-English'?

[nick]

for all of you morons out there - rhodri glyn thomas does not speak on behalf of cardiff city. he is just a typical politician trying to gain some appeal by trying to create a populist issue.

[Tony G]

If Cardiff do not like the final ceremony in the FA Cup they should refrain from playing in it. If Welshmen do not like England they should leave it. Somehow, we English will manage to survive without the Welsh, Scots and all the other foreigners foisted on us by stupid politicians.

[Mike James]

When Swansea City played in the League playoffs at the old Wembley Stadium in 1996 they played the Welsh National Anthem as well as God Save The Queen. If they played Land of My Fathers in 1996 why not in 2008 for Cardiff City?

[Paul E]

An an Englishman resident in Cardiff I will have to be fair and say that this isn't a big deal amongst Cardiff fans or the Welsh. Virtually all accept that Cardiff are playing in an English competition.

The Welsh Sports Minister who said it was "common sense" that Land of My Fathers should be played really doesn't really have his heart in this either; he was trying to pre-empt any similar calls from Plaid Cymru (who are silent on this issue) and has said nothing since the weekend.

"Common sense" states that God Save The Queen only should be played as it is an English competition in which Cardiff are Welsh guests.

The Welsh FA have also set a precedent, refusing to allow GSTQ to be played at a Welsh Cup Final a few years ago when Hednesford Town (for some reason) were playing.

[Kyle]

They could play both anthems simultaneously...

[Star o' Rabbie Burns]

So glad to see so many English-based posters pointing out that "God Save the Queen" is the BRITISH rather than English national anthem.

I wouldn't mind GSTQ becoming, like "Hail to the Chief" a short anthem to signal the Head of State's arrival at an event, then we could have "Land of Hope and Glory" or "Rule Britannia" as a British anthem and "Jerusalem" as the English anthem, alongside the already used Scottish and Welsh anthems - the Northern Irish, no let's avoid that can or worms!!!

But isn't it typically Welsh to want to have their cake and eat it. If Cardiff City wanted to play in Europe every year all they would have to do is quit the Football League and play in the Welsh League, but, just as their rugby compatriots fell over themselves to get into the EDF Cup (or whatever it is called), as soon as the English rattled their cash in their direction, off they went.

[Robert Severn]

I'm an American, but the last time I was at a Cardiff game, I heard "Men of Harlech" not "Land of Our Fathers".
It's a better song. Sing it.
I'll be supporting Cardiff in any case.
BTW, at NHL Hockey game in the U.S., "Oh Canada" is sung for Canadian Teams.

[Joris]

Why would you play "God save the Queen" when it's the Brittish anthem? Play the English anthem or none at all. It's the English FA Cup and not the Brittish FA cup.

[Alastair Ewen]

Sorry little Englanders - "God save the Queen", quite apart from being a dreadful dirge, is a rabidly anti-Scottish anthem. It has no place as a UK anthem. Let the Welsh have their anthem at Wembley. After all, they let the English play at their national stadium whilst the UK taxpayers shelled out for the new Wembley.

[Stephen]

I watched Huddersfield play Swansea in the Autoglass Trophy at Wembley some years back as a (Huddersfield fan). The Swansea fans singing Land of my fathers was extremely loud (especially as there were only 3 bus loads of them !). The singing of God Save the Queen was the one and only time my ears have hurt at a football match. Absolutely deafening.

Play the Welsh anthem - they'll sing it anyway - more so if you tell them they can't.

[Sajal]

Play both anthems and don't be a stuck-up behind a national identity. Being patriotic does not mean you have to hate another country or not participate in another country's rituals. It is a proud moment for Cardiff City and let them sing their anthem. Besides it is football, come together and enjoy the game.

[Don Conka]

Of course the Welsh anthem should not be played at the English FA cup final. This issue, yet again, highlights the uselessness of Sports Ministers. Can anyone recall any of the sports ministers under Labour from 1997 making a meaningful contribution to British sport? Okay, Richard Caborn will no doubt claim partial credit for securing the 2012 Olympics and is currently working on a bid for the 2018 World Cup. If he hadn't failed to halt the loss of school playing fields then maybe we could have won major sporting events, instead of just staging them.

[Nicky]

David, David, David, rest assured my friend, that God Save the Queen is NOT the Welsh National Anthem...

[David]

God Save The Queen IS the Welsh national anthem. It is the UK's national anthem, and last time i checked....Wales were part of the UK!
If they want to play a welsh song, there should be an English song to restore parity, and then the national anthem for both, but at that rate the band will be on the pitch longer than the players!
When will the Welsh and Scotish realise that the national anthem is thier anthem too!

[Pedro]

I would understand it if a club such as Atletico Bilbao- with strong Basque nationalistic policies, ie. the candera- were to raise a similar point, but the fact is that Cardiff cannot claim to be a bastion of Welsh nationalism amongst the hoards of English clubs in the FA. The fact remains that GSTQ is a British anthem and unfortunately, the band-wagon jumping politicians have to concede that this is not an international competition.

[Ian]

This is all a bit daft - when did a domestic cup tie turn into an international fixture. It's an English competition held by the English FA and taking place at an English venue. How about an English national anthem to balance things - anyone remember Vindaloo? Last time I checked it was a National Anthem (ie - British) - if you don't like it, there's always the Welsh Cup next year.

[Glenn Beckett]

No, of course the Welsh anthem should not be played, for all the reasons already stated. However, in the bigger scheme of things, when are England and/or English teams going to get an ENGLISH anthem to sing to? God Save the Queen is NOT the English anthem, it's the British anthem, which is a different thing entirely.

[micky]

As a Pompey boy exiled in Swansea may I say I am touched by all my work colleagues desperatly hoping that Cardiff will lose. As for the anthems, you need to remeber that this will not be a game of rugby, the anthems, English, Welsh or that Monarchist dirge will be booed. Better off being pragmatic and not playing anything at all. Good luck to Pompey and the Jacks in the Championship next season!

[Harry]

Cardiff are taking the micky of they want to sing their "national anthem". Wales is a principality of England, Cardiff only compete because we allow them to and now they want, not only to represent us in Europe as a representative of England, but to sing their national anthem as well?

Give me a break. If they want to be an independant club from a different country they should qualify for Europe via their own cup.....

[Chris A]

I think James D has missed the point!

If the Cardiff supporters are true Welshmen they will sing it anyway. The English dont mind taking Welsh Cricket teams into their leauge (Glamorgan is in Wales), so arguements that Cardif are picking and choosing what suits them is a bit far of the mark.

[Jim Goodwin]

No, they shouldn't play the Welsh anthem. It is NOT an international fixture. Cardiff want it all their own way. "We're not part of England!" "Err, but we want to play in English compeititon if that's okay". "We're not part of England!" "Err, but we demand a place in Europe through this English cup competition".

[James, London]

No of course it shouldn't. It's an English league.

[David]

What's the big deal here?? Of COURSE the Welsh should be allowed their anthem, purely as a matter of courtesy and also to mark the occasion as the "one-off" that it almost undoubtedly will be.

Why are people getting so aereated about this? It's not important, but it would be the civilised and sensible thing to do.

As the majority (if not all) of Cardiff's support will be Welsh it would be a nice touch to hear 'Land of My Fathers (in Welsh)'. However, as pointed out all Welsh clubs who participate in the English Leagues are given dispensation to do so. This isn't a joint league otherwise we should see the likes of Glasgow Rangers and Celtic being allowed to enter. No, I'm a Welshman and I think it would be somethiing of a liberty to try and enforce the Welsh National Anthem on proceedings, besides, 'God Save the Queen' is the British National Anthem isn't it? Good luck to Cardiff though!!

[Stephen Grant]

I don't think the Welsh National Anthem should be played, English Competition and their on set of rules. I also feel that God Save the Queen is the Anthem of the UK or Great Britian NOT England. The English Commonwealth Games anthem is Land of Hope and Glory - why not other English teams?

[Tom]

one anthem only please,as a compromise maybe Tom Jones or Dame Shirley Bassey belting out God Save The Queen

[James, Sydney]

I wouldn't even play the English national anthem. If it is there to symbolise a very English competition then the argument fails each year when Cardiff/Swansea etc enter the draw. If it is to reflect the players on the pitch then the Englishmen represented in each squad this year is only around 8 each. If it is a representation of the clubs involved then the English club is owned by a Russian and the Welsh have the pleasure of everyones favourite Yorkshireman at the helm - nonsense!!

[Alan Handsome]

It's not as though we are breaking with tradition as they played it last time, and to me the FA Cup is actually big part about traditon (Villa will always get knocked out by Man Utd in the 3rd Rd, the "Unlucky/Cursed" dressing room and this year in particular the Cup upset) With due respect to both teams and their fantastic achievement this year, They've both put in good performances amd capable of playing nice football, but surely there's at least a case to be made it's simply less likely to be a example of the beautiful game because of the basic standard of the players involved. I'm not saying the game MUST have one of the big three (Man Utd, Chelsea & Arsenal involved). Just that it's more likely for instance, that these players might 'freeze' on the big day and this might put people off watching. My fingers are crossed that it's a good game, As it's the F.A. Cup Final I'm sure I'll be watching the game but realistically I'm not expecting Total Football. I'd be disappointed if people aren't going to watch the game because they THINK the football will be of a poorer standard than would normally mean they don't get dressed until the late afternoon and watch the hours of build up before the game as a neutral fan, then why not inject some national pride into the fixture.
The idea of a home international fixture was touted only very recently and people seemed relatively keen. Why not have one now? Before we by default support whoever is playing the Germans. The English can support a team who might actually win a trophy this summer.
We don't have to start rolling out the stereotypes in the press and chasing the Welsh out of the England but gives both nations a chance to get behind 'their' team.
I think both teams deserve that for the enjoyment we've had so far.
If that isn't a good enough reason try reminding them the FA Cup Final is on ITV from next season, adverts, rubbish...

[Dave]

Slow news day then is it Martin? Of course the Welsh anthem should be played at the final.

[Debbie]

Why not play the Welsh and English national anthems? As I recall, the English national anthem is "Land of Hope and Glory", not "God Save the Queen" (though personally, I wish it were "Jerusalem", preferably Emerson, Lake and Palmer's version..." "God Save the Queen" should only be played when British teams are playing.

[rakesh sondhi]

Why not play the Welsh anthem?

The so-called English one is dreadfully dull after all and it's the FA Cup not the English Cup.

[nick sanchez]

its cardiffs first final in 81 years, a national anthem is probly the last thing on thier minds. does this really matter?

besides 'god save the queen' is the natonal anthem for the UK. now last i recall wales was part of the UK.

its another person trying to tell us whats right for us.... ministre of sports or politics??? make your mind up!

[johnboyblue]

I dont see why any national anthem is played as it is not an international. Could God Save the Queen be played just as an act of deference to the royal guest, prior to them yawning their way through the game wishing they were at a rugby match?
'Abide by me' gives all tradition that this unique competition needs.

[ELLIOTT CLARKSON]

If they DO end up playing it, I wouldn't knock the Pompey fans if they sung over it.

English competition, English anthem.

[Kevin Leonard]

Cardiff fans generally are certainly not demanding that the Welsh anthem is played. In fact, the majority opinion on the most popular Cardiff message board is basically along the lines of ..it's an English competition, taking place in England and whatever the FA decides should be respected.
Just because a politician jumps on a bandwagon, it shouldn't be seen as the view of all Cardiff fans. Incidentally, this particular politician is from west Wales with his own particular agenda.
Personally, I think it would be nice if Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau was played as well, but if the FA doesn't want that, that's fine by me.
I'll just be enjoying watching Cardiff in the cup final for the first time in 81 years -- a cup, incidentally, which we've entered for every one of those 81 years, unlike some other English teams I could mention. Nobody wants Man United banned from the FA Cup though (including me).

[Chris]

I am a Cardiff City season ticket holder. The Welsh national anthem should not be played this is pompey v cardiff. It is not Wales v England. The Welsh sports minister should be sacked. He is a rugby fan anyway.

[Thomas L]

If God Save the Queen was the national anthem for England there may be a case but since it's the national anthem for the United Kingdom i don't see why a Welsh anthem should be played

[Mike]

All this whingeing about Wales, the National Anthem and it being an ENGLISH competition. Well, the English, were all to happy to borrow the best stadium in Britain, after they infamously went over budget building a stadium; which incidentally falls far short of the Millennium. The simple fact is that Europe wants Wales to be recognised independently of England by having two separate football leagues. Playing the Welsh national anthem would also help the world wide audience understand this. Secondly, there ARE English teams that do play in Wales but still compete in the English leagues - Chester for one!

[Rehan Ashraf]

As far as I'm concerned, Cardiff should not be allowed to enter the FA Cup as they are a Welsh club.

Its funny seeing UEFA explore ways of entering Cardiff in Europe if they win the FA Cup, as I recall their insistence that all club teams should play in the league of the country in which they reside, or else forfeit any place gained in European competition. Why the sudden 180 degree turn?

[James]

The Welsh National Anthem should not be played at the final, and nor should the English anthem. If Arsenal had got to the final they most likely would not have had any English players on show anyway, so just how relevant are the national anthems for club competitions? They should be reserved for internationals fixtures.

[Mike McLovin]

Yes they should play it. As an Englishman in Wales you have to see, hear and feel the passion when the Welsh sing their anthem at a sporting event. It is awesome and puts us English to shame. Let Cardiff have their day, and dont forget they were the ultimate host for the last few years. At least the Welsh will sing along.

[Paul Lavin]

I always thought that God Save the Queen was the British anthem not the English anthem so why is it being played at all?

[James D]

Ok, the Welsh national anthem was played in 1923, the last time they made the FA cup final. But saying we should do it again is like saying because Hitler made the Munich Putsch in '23, the Germans need a fascist governent again.

Times have changed, and if Cardiff want to play in English Football League and be entered for these competitions, they are registering as an english club.

Do we need the national anthem anyway?

[carl]

to kieran robins, I agree, the FA should throw out the Welsh teams.

Seriously, I have no issues with the FA allowing welsh teams into the FA cup, but if they want to be apart of it they can't ask for special rules. There should only be one national anthem played.

In a side issue, if a welsh team is allowed into the FA cup and wins then of course the should get the place in Europe. What a stupid rules to say that they can't.

[Richard Griffiths]

It shouldn't be played. Simple as. It will just stir up a volume of anti-welsh bile and reopen the 'why are they playing in the English system?' debate.

We are hoping to represent England and the English FA in Europe - none of this wildcard malarky, and playing the Welsh anthem (in addition to the moronic element of our support who will boo GTSQ) will not endear Cardiff or their supporters to anyone. We have a bad enough reputation as it is. Sooner we leave the FAW and become full time members of the FA the better.

This Welsh minister is just trying to get some good bandwagon jumping and brownie point collecting prior to the upcoming local elections.

[Josh Dickson]

If Cardiff feel their welsh roots this strongly then surely they had better enter Welsh tournaments? This pick n mix philsolophy from cardiff shouldn't be accepted.

[Luke -Cardiff]

The National Anthem should be played. The Welsh National Anthem should not. Why should it? It is not Wales v England.
I just hope Cardiff fans do not boo "God save the Queen." Give it respect as otherwise it would embarass Wales, and give oppportunity for the English press to have a go at the Welsh.
At the end of the day it is a football match. It is not a political decision for the FA to make, and nothing to do with a Welsh politician and one which should be respected whatever it is by all and subdry.
I just cannot believe City are in the final - they can play the "Sex Pistols" version of GSTQ for all I care - it is a day I never thought would ever happen.

[kieran robins]

Of course the Welsh national anthem should be played at the final. If the FA never planned for the anthem to be played for the Welsh teams in the competition then they should never have been entered into the FA cup draw. And after all the last time cardiff were in the final "land of my fathers was played".

[Kevin Crinks]

I watched the Cup Final a couple of years ago, and there were so few British players that no one could have managed "God Save The Queen" if their lives depended on it.

[Damian Williamson]

"It's OK though, if it's omitted, people in Wales know England has its 'traditions' to maintain, and the FA 'won't have room in his program' to include Wales' national anthem."

I really dont see why the issue is important. I have never heard such complaints at other sporting events when the British National Anthem is played to represent Welshmen (e.g. the Olympics).

If the Welsh are so intent on separating themselves from the rest, they should find it equally as important that Cardiff City play in a Welsh league and leave the Championship and FA Cup. Havent heard any complaints about them playing in an English League though.

[Richard Jones - North Wales]

It depends. When English teams played in the Welsh Cup final, did they play "God Save the Queen"? If the answer is no then they need not play "Land of My Fathers" at Wembley for what is an English Cup final.

[Victor]

It is the English cup final, organised by the English FA, played at the home English football, with an added bonus of representing England in the europe next season.

The FA should point this out to the Welsh sports minister before telling him no to Land of my Fathers being played.

[Mike Thomas]

As a Welshman I completely agree with Martin Samuels's stance. This is not an international match and few of Cardiff's players are Welsh. As for Rhodri Glyn Thomas - his pathetic attempts at populism will not be appreciated by many Welshmen and he should be sacked!

[John Ball]

Absolutely right; it is an English tournament. If Cardiff are that bothered about their Welsh status perhaps they should restrict themselves to Welsh tournaments and leagues.

[Alex]

Nothing can beat a good Welsh sing song. It's actually called "Mae'r hen wlad fy nhadau", the English translation is "The Land of My Fathers". It's a beautiful piece of music and also represents a considerable population of the United Kingdom. Of course it should be included. It's OK though, if it's omitted, people in Wales know England has its 'traditions' to maintain, and the FA 'won't have room in his program' to include Wales' national anthem. The argument that "Well Wales doesn't contribute to football, look how many Welshmen are in Cardiff's team," could quite easily apply to Portsmouth with Englishmen. Besides, Wembley owes Cardiff a favour for providing the best venue in Britain for 5 years of electric cup finals!

[Dave Tole]

Not like a politician to pipe up and throw accustations of Xenephobia , racism , Cardiffophobia , anythingyoucanthinkofphobia around in the press is it? Why don't they just wait for their free royal box ticket to arrive in the post and shut up ? Why the need to shout the odds over perceived injustices when all us football people want is to just watch a good game ? Let them play their respective anthems in the changing rooms before the game if they want to be pumped up with national pride , if anything ban all anthems and just run out and play some football , and ban all politicians from the game as well .

[Gareth Pearce]

Nice debate - cue a bout of misplaced and inane welsh nationalism and patronising english bile in your inbox Martin! For what it's worth, is the Queen not the sovereign of the entire United Kingdom? And as part of that (whether certain Welsh-folk like it or not), is 'God save the Queen' not our shared anthem? Welsh athletes competing in the Olympics don't seem to mind having 'God save the Queen' played on the podium. Whatever next? 'You'll Never Walk Alone' and 'I'm Forever Blowing Bubbles' if Liverpool meet West Ham again?!

[Alan Evans]

What a sour attitude you display Mr. Samuels. For the record, this is the FA Cup, not the English Cup. That, however, is a pedantic distinction. More to the point is that there is precedent for both anthems. In 1927, both anthems were played at the FA Cup Final when Cardiff played. Indeed, the King so enjoyed the Welsh anthem that he asked for it to be played a second time. So, why do you adopt such a miserable attitude, is it so offensive to you that a simple courtesy cannot be tolerated. If, for instance, some miserable Welshmen complained about having to listen to GSTQ (there are a few of these useless articles but not many) then I would understand. All the has been "requested" (not demanded as you so transparently framed it), is the inclusion of a beautiful hymn. Is that so unreasonable ?.

Finally, since I'm sure you don't know this either, Abide With Me was first sung at that same 1927 Cup Final, initially by a Welsh choir. Where did your xenophobia spring from ?. It doesn't flatter you.

I hope for an exciting game, something different than the same boring foursome who cannot at this point appreciate the pleasure of a RARE Cup Final appearance. Variety is the spice of life, don't you think.

[Elliot Hiller]

The last sentence but one holds the key to a partial understanding of the obvious: a Welsh side is allowed to participate in an ENGLISH competition and should thus respect this by not insisting that their national anthem be played at Wembley. The request stirs however the ambivalent nature of many peoples attitude to the whole question of Welsh nationalism: those who have the power to grant or decline this request will hopefully not be led on to the thin ice of a political debate in a purely sporting matter. The situation is not comparable with China hosting the Olympic games while they govern Tibet. As olympic hosts they have been invited to stage an event for the whole world; Cardiff have been invited to take part not in an international but in a national event.
On the subject of China and the Olympic Games it remains to say that the chickens are coming home to roost: the decision to choose Beijing was made in the face of terrible atrocities and crimes against humanity which are being committed in Tibet while the rest of the world does nothing.

[michael]

Exactly. There's no reason to play the Welsh national anthem, Cardiff aren't the Welsh national team. And remember how many times God Save the Queen has been booed at the Millenium Stadium? I'm not saying that Cardiff should be punished for this, but there is little reason to play the Welsh national anthem at an event which Cardiff are essentially playing in as "wildcard" members of the FA.