The Two Marks: Bright and Pougatch

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No Guillem this week (he's on a mini-break plotting fiendish plots), so you get more of me. Lucky you. You also get not one, but two, Marks: Pougatch and Bright. They help us dissect the aftermath of Chelsea v Mancheter United and what looks like a bona fide title race. Plus, we talk to Hammers boss Alan Curbishley who dispels few rumors and outlines his plans for the future.
Bright stands in for Guillem and shows that ex-footballers can Quick Hit with the best of them. And, of course, Bill Edgar, in a feisty mood, serves up another stat. As I write every week, please join the debate below.

Bill is sharply critical of United's safety-first approach and the heavy rotation. Pougatch outlines some Gooner-tinted scenario where Arsenal win the title (it's a struggle to keep the men in white coats from dragging him away). Bright thinks that, Wigan can really test United and that things will legitimately go down to the wire. That said, nobody has the cojones to predict a title for Chelsea (except for Avram Grant maybe).
We do our relegation poll, look at the run-in and predict Bolton and Fulham to go down. Heck, we're all just guessing at this stage. Oh, and Bill drops another bombshell: he reckons Manchester United fans have respect, but not affection, for Sir Alex. (uh-oh , I think the men in white coats are coming back...)
Curbishley says this injury-riddled season has made the club stronger. And he thinks a top eight finish is a legitimate target next year. He denies that his side are demotivated because they have little to play for. And he sets the record straight on the appointment of Gianluca Nani, the club's director of football.

Comments

[Lee C]

I'm still on the fence over Roy Keane. I wouldn't go along with the statement that he is a bad judge of a player; Jones, Richardson, Gordon, Evans and Bardsley are all Premier league players. Admittedly, he did have a few years of training sessions to judge 3 of those 5. He has wasted some money, I suspect Stern John would have scored more goals this year than Chopra, to let him go seemed senseless.

I think the biggest problem Roy has is that he seems to want to prove a point. I genuinely feel that he believes a good work ethic is overwhelmingly more important than technique. This idea probably has foundations in his own ability as a player. When interviewed he seemed to freely admit he was willing to outwork any opponent, both over 90 minutes and a career. I never heard him speak of his perfect first touch, ability to play a 10 yard pass accurately every time or him having an unteachable understanding of how football 'works'.

Roy Keane was a far better player than he gave himself credit for. No matter what he believes, football is not as simple as getting dirtier and sweatier than your opponent. While getting his squad to work as hard as he did as a player will keep them in the league, he will never 'create' a team of Roy Keanes.

I think we also need to consider that he has only been a manager for less than 2 years. Billy Davies, Steve Coppell, Neil Warnock, Mick McCarthy... A decent selection of very experienced promoted managers of the last 3 years. Maybe the value spent wasn't as high but I dont remember them exactly setting the world alight with a handful of transfers in their first season promoted...

[Gabriele Marcotti]

Vincent - I don't doubt that it's harder to attract players to Sunderland than it is to, say, Arsenal or United. But the reality is that money talks. The Premier League is an exceptional "shop window" and, given that Sunderland can match the wages of all but 6 or 7 English clubs, I really don't think this is much of an obstacle.
Plus, the idea of upgrading over time doesn't really make sense. He has a large squad with players on multiy-year contracts which are going to be difficult to shift.
Finally, what you're saying is a bit of a tautology. Attracting players is a skill - if you can't attract them, that's part of the problem. Hopefully, if you're a Sunderland fan, Keane will either improve in that department or bring in people who can do it better than he can.

[Gabriele Marcotti]

1. Andi - I think you're a bit out of touch with reality...
Why would Wigan and West Ham "defend as if they're lives are on the line".
2. David - As I said, you need to divide Keane's job two. In terms of coaching, he's done well. In terms buying players, he bought a number of bad ones and overpaid for them to boot. Beyond that, I agree... if you have a long-standing relationship with the people you opine on, you're bound to give them an easier ride. (I probably do the same). Grant has no such long-standing friendships with powerful media types in this country.

[Vincent]

Gab, is it possible that Keane bought the only players he was able to attract to Sunderland? Based on the fact he was a new manager leading a team that was likely to get relegated anyway, maybe he shopped from the only store that would let him in.The players have kept him up and now he has the opportunity to upgrade them over the summer.

[Andi]

Why is it stated that West Ham and Wigan have nothing to play for? Does anyone really think they will give less than 200% in order to beat and stop Utd? They will both put in their hardest working performances of the season. Defending as though their lives are on the line.

[David]

Gab, The point I was trying to make is that the media in this country are so weak at dealing with big name managers and personalities. All you here from shearer and lawrenson is that Keane has done a great job at Sunderland, However when you look at who badly he has spent you could not possibly conclude this. Why do they not say anything differently, maybe they are scared of a rebuttle from Keane who has a fearsome reputation. Then they are always unfair towards the unknown drab israeli. Who could achieve a double, and they will have to eat thier words.

[Gabriele Marcotti]

1. David - I think Roy Keane is actually a good coach and, in that sense, has done a good job with a mediocre group of players. That said, I think his buying strategy has been wrong overall. Identifying players and getting them at the right price is a skill that, in my opinion, is separate from coaching (which is what managers should be primarily judged on). It may well be that Keane has a bad scouting network or that he was poorly advised or that he simply made mistakes in signing players. That's something that he can solve, either by learning (remember, he's only been in the job two years) or getting better people to advise him. My only point was that it was silly to talk about another 60-70m.
2. Tom - I know where you're coming from. But, saying he's not loved by the majority sounds a bit OTT, IMHO.
3. Craig - A provocative idea. I'll take it in the spirit with which it was submitted.
4. Reuben - Regarding Curbishley, yes, they've spent a lot and paid a lot on wages. And that may have been the wrong thing to do. But we can't really judge because of the injuries. You can only judge on results and, given the circumstances, 10th place is not bad.
As for Grant, the fact is that, as I write this, Chelsea are joint-top of the Premier League and 90 minutes away from the CL final. Ultimately, managers are judged on results. And this is a guy who was sneered and disrespected by (almost) everyone.

[reuben anderson]

My oh my Curbishley is quite the master of excuses isn't he?

So West Ham only spent a net £5million in the summer... well, ok, yes, but how much was spent in the previous January window on Upson, Neil, Boa-Morte, Parker, Quashie, Davenport ... ? He didn't need to spend a lot in summer as the squad was already massive.

Secondly the injury list... Here he's got a fair point, mostly, but what sensible club would buy Bellamy and Dyer given their injury history? Llundberg is 31 and was in all likelihood sold by Arsenal because of fitness concerns.

Having said which, Spector has been a real find. Noble's done well. McCartney should be player of the season. Robert Green should be england's number one. They've got the makings of a great team there.

Finally, I don't agree that the criticism of Grant is unfair. Chelsea play exactly the way Mourinho set them up and have been unconvincing for the entire season - up until Saturday when they finally looked like a quality side. Defensively they've been poor. They've been toothless up front since Drogba came back from the African cup, and by and large they've scraped their way to wins week after week. For example, they've had 1-0 wins against Boro, Sunderland, Reading and Birmingham.
Grant's team selection and substitutions have been consistently questionable and the team have been basically dysfunctional, rarely gelling on the pitch. I still don't see why he deserves any special credit, especially after seeing Chelsea perform on Saturday to the level they should regularly be capable of.

I think Drogba is becoming a problem for Chelsea the way Henry became a problem for Arsenal - a wonderful player, but a player who's beginning to dominate to the detriment of the team.

[Craig Richards]

Hi guys
To stop the debacle of another team as bad as Derby coming up from the Championship i think that whoever wins the Championship play off this year should have to play against an "All Star" Premiership team of

1. Paul Robinson
2. Zat Knight
3. Titus Bramble
4. McShane (sunderland)
5. Darren Moore
6. Kilbane
7. McCann
8. Rochembach
9. Sibierski
10. Earnshaw
11. Vassell

and managed by Lawrie Sanchez (try playing route 1 long ball with these strikers), and if the Championship team cannot win by two clear goals then they cannot come up to the Premiership.

Craig Richards

[Tom]

I was surprised by the group's disbelief at Bill's claim that Fergie is not loved by United fans in the way Busby was. Of course we all acknowledge that he has brought us nearly two decades of unbelievable successes. But we have always had our reservations about Fergie the man. Long before the Glazers many had heard worrying stories about the way he conducts himself. However his cheerleading of the takeover , his subsequent "Go and support Chelsea" jibe and regular digs at FC United lost him a lot of previously unconditional supporters. I can't remember the last time I heard the "Every single one of us loves Alex Ferguson" song. Compare/ contrast with the support Wenger, Benitez and Mourinho have got from their crowds.

[David]

Thank goodness some one in the media has the balls to criticize Roy Keane. All the pundits are clearly scared of him and instead of asking serious questions about how his transfer policy has been generally awful, Instead they talk about how well he has done. This comes back to what was said last week that are media are to cowardly to criticize big name personalities while crucifying a little known middle aged Israeli who could achieve a double this season. Talking of Grant as someone who dislikes Chelsea, there is part of me that wants them to win the double just for the looks on the medias face when a man they have treated like they have achieves something remarkable. If they do win the double may be people will realise that perhaps you do not need a big name manager at a big club to win trophys, that as long as you have a good squad of players and a manager who is sound tactically you can still be reasonably successful.