Debate: Is the Premier League boring?

Kevin Keegan says that the domination of the big four in the Premier League has made the competition a dull affair. After his team's defeat by Chelsea at the weekend the Newcastle manager suggested: "This league is in danger of becoming one of the most boring, but great, leagues."

But has the increasing power and financial strength of Manchester United, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal made the Premier League a closed-shop yawnfest where the same old faces win again and again and fifth is the only attainable target for the chasing pack?

When Keegan said that Newcastle fans should start "dreaming again" did he mean of a 10th place finish? Is he gently priming the rabid Geordie fans for disappointment or has he just got it completely wrong?

Can supporters complain when the destination of the title goes to the wire and could be decided on goal difference, and the fight to avoid the dreaded drop into the Championship, the hapless Derby aside, is so enthralling?

Let us know your thoughts.

Comments

[Mark]

I agree with one of the ealier posts - the league is not boring - but it is predicatable. And for those people who think that a euro league would be more interesting, the value of matches such as Man U v Barcelona or Inter v Arsenal is the rarity value. The real strength of football lies in the rivalry - these are largely local: Man U v Liverpool or Olympiakos v Villareal - which would you watch? Which captures real fans' imagination? In Thailand?

The developing lack of competitiveness is therefore also a problem for the top 4 as an uncompetitive premiership is ultimately bad for business overall. Man U's biggest revenue stream is still gate receipts.

To suggest that its really about the way the club is run is also nonsense - Everton are as well run a club as any in the league - but without CL money they are unable to compete effectively for the best players.

Keegan did nothing apart from state the blindingly obvious.

Remove the seeding system from CL group and qualifying stages might result in a wider distribution of teams later on and ensure that the CL is not an automatic route to ££ for the bigger clubs.

[Paul Jackson]

Of course it's not boring.

He's playing mind games with the chairman.

This is a pointless discussion.

(Man U fan, ha ha)

[john pownall]

Manchester United..shameless merchandising? You make it sound like a sin. Live and die by the sword; it's a simple as that. United have benefited from being the most successful English club in the premiership era, a time when money has poured into the game. Had another club been so successful (due in large part to the work of Ferguson and his team) during the same period, then the club would have been as big as United are now. By contrast, Chelsea have benefited entirely from one extremely rich man who has favoured the club with limitless backing. It could have been anyone. This is not to take anything away from the business acumen of those in charge at Stamford Bridge, who are clearly building the superclub of tomorrow. United, Arsenal, and Liverpool, will all be left behind in the end.

[Micky]

The League itself isn't boring at all. Just ask all those people who go to or watch matches on TV staged at Old Trafford and Emirates, or people who support Wigan, dramitically drawing at Chelsea, Boro, being the first team to beat then undefeated Arsenal or Fulham, winning after being 2-0 down AWAY will tell you it isn't. Sure the top 4 clubs always seem to occupy the top spots, but realistically Liverpool only play for forth to get a Champions League spot. United, Arsenal, Chelsea play for all trophies available. Newcastle should look to make forth. Some smart buys and you will be there. Sure it might be 10 years before you challenge United, but at that stage you will be better off and more stable as a club.

[Chris]

Population isnt the only factor behind the 'size' of a city.

Look at Beijing - 20 odd million people and overshadowed economically by London with 7million or so.

Newcastle's commercial economy is pretty strong. I live in Leeds and always find it to seem really small compared to Newcastle in terms of shopping, things to do, and historic features etc. Population wise, leeds is the third biggest is it not?

Its quality not quantity.

[pete]

Football has a similer problem to everything else in the world - fibonachi (and his iritating rule that always works!). you have 2 teams at the top (man u+chelsea)(ok, normaly the fibonaci sequence starts with 1...but 2 works better), then another 2 (arsenal+liverpool) then 4 (everton, villa, pompey, blackburn) then 6 (man city, west ham, spurs, ...etc) - it follows right down to the championship and beond. its just that by the time you get down to the championship, all the teams are (about) the same level.

One solution to the problem could be having a play off to get the last champions league spot. that way, more of the teams would be involved right till the end. you could also have a play off for relegation, whee the "losers" of each game go through, and are eventually relegated. the current system leaves most clubs with there fate decided long before the season ends.

[David Cooper]

C Elder I'm afraid your not making much sense.

And just to put you straight the biggest cities in England (by population size) are.

London,Birmingham,Manchester(greater),
Liverpool,Leeds,Sheffield,Bristol,Leicester,
Coventry and Hull.

Newcastle isn't a big place it has a smaller population than Derby.

[C.Elder]

There is no "big 4".
Demographics+stadium size+local economy determine who the top teams can be.The biggest cities in England are London; Manchester; Liverpool;Birmingham and Newcastle.Thus it is normal that these cities provide the top teams.Thus there should be a top 10-12 on this basis.London has perennial underperformers Tottenham,who should be in a "top" category,but they have a too small stadium and were hopeless before Ramos.So poor team and stadium kept them back.West Ham are in the same situation.Otherwise these 2 should be much closer to the top 4.Man City is competitive for the first time in 20 years+they have a good size stadium and Ericson has done well there.They should be closer to the top grouping pointwise.Aston Villa are creeping up just as Birmingham City are hopeless,but at least the Birmingham area will be represented in the top 10 category.But here too they need a bigger stadium.Newcastle have the demographics and the stadium,but are hopelessly coached.
So the premiereship should be 12 top teams with a closer points total and the no-hopers who are handicapped either by demographics(Reading;Portsmouth;Blackburn;Wigan) or small stadiums (Fulham) or lack the talent at the player/coaching level(Middlesborough;Sunderland;Birmingham City;Bolton;).
What makes the current top 4 the top 4 is simply more talent at the player/coaching level than the other teams like Tottenham;Everton;Aston villa;West Ham,Newcastle;Man City;who could be much closer in points to the top 4 finishers.

[David Cooper]

Why do we have a "big 4"? Simple champions league money, which allows the clubs to buy the players to ensure they finish in the CL spots every season.

Split the CL places up, top 2 qualify automatically and then the 3rd to 6th place teams play off for one place and the FA cup winners for the other.

It might not be "fair" but I think we are getting to the stage where we need to artifically shake things up.

Managers will say it's what you do over the course of a season that counts, even when it's with vastly different resources?

[Twobob]

Am I imganing it or are all the tope leagues in the world dominated by a few select teams? IS world football boring?

[Mike]

I know nobody wants to hear football advice from a yank, but listen up:

1. Forget a salary cap. It works in US sports because most are either unique to us (american football) or there is no other financially competitive league (basketball). Put in a salary cap, and the best players will just go to other countries...

2. The PL isnt boring because of the top 4, its boring because some teams are out of the hunt with months left in the season. What you need is a playoff. End of the season, top 8 teams go into a single elimination tournament to end the year. Last team standing wins the premiership. That may sound like blasphemy, but it wouldnt certainly add some spice to the month of may.

[nachos]

hey aren't cardiff and portsmouth in the FA cup final? there's still some romance left in football...

[James, Sydney]

If they wanted to reset the balance introduce the U.S/AUS draft system and cap wages. Since the Premiership began there have been 10 different teams finishing in the top three spots. However, for the last three years it has been the same three and, bar a Russian walk out or a bit of Scouse consistancy, this trend may continue for a few years to come.

[Dave]

The argument that the other 16 clubs dont need the big 4 as much as the big 4 need them is interesting but potentially wrong.
If the 16 decide to resign from the premiership and form their own league to replace it and the big 4 go off and form a league with Real and Barcelona and Juve and Inter et al where do you think all the money is going to go?
The TV deals will follow them and the best players will go and continue to go. The 16 will be left with at the most a similar amount of money as they have in the championship and possible no way of breaking into the big league.

[Jim Regan]

It's easy to say that less English teams should be allowed to enter the Champion's League, but surely the facts that it's an all-English final and that only English teams managed to knock out other English teams shows that the competition would have been significantly weaker without them. It's only a matter of time until non-top-4 Premiership clubs start to catch up, as the very best players become more expensive but those just below in quality become cheaper. Players such as Owen, Carew, Elano, Hart, Valencia and Bently are all capable of still playing for top teams but were all bought by 'lesser sides' when the big-boys didn't see the potential (although Owen wasn't the cheapest). I can only see this trend continuing

[Frank Upton]

We don't really like success in England, do we? If our national side won all the time we would start moaning about them being boring and predictable, and wanting them to play more creative football etc etc. Don't laugh - that's just what happened to our rugby team not long ago. Enjoy the success while it lasts!

[Faithy]

Step 1: The Premier League collectivly negotiates TV contracts and this should be extended to all sponsorship & merchandising deals. These deals would be worth more than the sum of the current deals - as US Sports have proved

Step 2: Introduce a salary cap or luxury tax. I am sure that the salary cap budget would be greater than the budget of a lot of the other teams who contested the latter stages of the champions league.

Step 3: Cap squad sizes.

Step 4: Look into reducing the income gap between the Premier League and the Championship. The current set-up only breeds Premier League cannon fodder and devalues the 'product'

[James]

Its not all about money, there are other factors too.plenty teams outside top four spent more money than arsenal - spurs, fulham, sunderland, man city, west ham (and others that i think did but not sure are newcastle, boro maybe pompy. even if they didn't must be about the same). also in past few seasons everton did break the top four and spurs came within one game of it. to those saying the top4 cant be broken you're just wrong. people talk of the big 4 like its been like that for ages, but only really since abramovic came along.

[mo]

The premier league should look at the model of pro sports in the USA. The NFL has a salary cap and MLB has a luxury tax (i.e. if you exceed a certain payroll you pay tax on the excess). While there are still certain teams that dominate, it's not to the same extent as in the premier league and there have been a few occasions in the last few years that a cinderella team has won the world series or superbowl.

[Dave]

Funds available to at least challenge Liverpool and Arsenal. And challenge for what precisely? Fourth place? I think that's the point in case isn't it?

Of course its predicable. You only need to look at the number of winners of the English league since the introduction of the Premier League. Boring? Sometimes, but each and every league in the world, at whatever level, can provide exhilarating football and the same amount of dross each week. Its the competition that's lacking in England and indeed also throughout Europe; Real win in Spain (again), Bayern in Germany (again), Inter in Italy look set for another championship (again).

What I simply don't understand is how this is allowed to continue. Despite their financial might and despite their large fan bases...at the end of the day the 'big four' in England need the rest of the 16 clubs in the top division more than the other way around. Why the other clubs outside the 'big four' don't try to bring about some changes to introduce some competition into the league is beyond me. And if the 'big four' don't want to play ball then leave them out in the cold, leave them to it and let them play each other throughout the season (I'm sure they'd get sick of that pretty quickly)...or perhaps let me go a join a European league including the likes of Real, Bayern and Inter?

Clubs see the Premiership as the promised land because of the money that comes there way once they get involved. Fans want to see their team play the best. But for the vast majority all they can hope for is a UEFA cup spot and a shot at European football against other teams who for the most part also haven't got a chance of winning their domestic league. What does the UEFA Cup give you once you take into account the best clubs are all in the Champions league...sommat along the lines of that you can claim to be the 67th best team in Europe. Its a joke. All about money. A circus. And sommat needs to be done...

[Nick Turnbull]

I blame the Champions League. It should never have been increased to 4 clubs from the so-called 'super-leagues'. While it is nice that the title and relegation issues are going to the last day, I still agree with what was said further down. The clubs involved could have been predicted at the season's start. If it carries on like this, people will start to pack it in in their droves. The guys on True Faith have it spot on. Why do people keep spending their money on clubs just to be mucked about with midday kick-offs, late date changes and all the rest? For the UEFA Cup? That just makes a season more complicated!

[Huw]

Yes, the Premier League is boring and predictable. The Champions League has totally distorted the money distribution. For all the moans about the quality of the Championship, it is a genuinely competitive league where any team can have realistic hopes of winning it.

A salary cap is the only thing that can save the Premier League, and if the big 4 don't like it, they can bugger off to the SuperEuroChampionsLeague. The rest of us won't miss them.

[Matt - Singapore]

Although the title is going all the way down to the wire, ultimately it is between two teams that most football fans despise.

Manchester United, who were the first English side to indulge in the shameless merchandising of the club’s soul in every corner of the globe, or Chelsea, who were the club which ushered in the era of the billionaire owner which has now turned the Premier League into little more then a playground for the ultra rich.

If Arsenal had still been involved then maybe it would have been more interesting for the neutral but as it is, most people will not really care who comes out on top. It’s like having to choose between Boris or Ken, ok a little extreme but you get my point!!

[Ben]

well, no and yes, the games are mostly fun to watch but the season is a bit like loaded dice, you can hope but it always ends the same way.

[PH]

It's difficult, on the one hand how can one argue against it being boring when the same 4 clubs have monopolised the top 4 positions in the league for the near past (bar Evertons mild toe poking around the Champions League) and the forseeable future, and on the other how many other major European Leagues truely had 3 teams all gunning for the title 4 games before the end of the season?

I honestly think that the reason for such stability or stoicism in the top 5th of the table is due to how well run those 3 or 4 clubs are. Why are Arsenal and Manchester United continuously there or thereabouts, because they've been run in an intelligent, business oriented way. Other clubs have come and gone, Leeds, Newcastle, Blackburn have all had flirtations or even conquered the Premier League but they either haven't had the ambition to push to the next level, or had too much too soon.

Is the Premier League boring? No, a tad predictable in some areas, but not boring. The problem is, professionalism leads to money and money leads to reliance on business. A club can't just live the dream anymore, there are serious implications for dreaming in modern football, ask Leeds, ask Valencia even.

[yan]

premier league is the best... we have 2 teams in the final champions league look the ligue 1 in france it is unbelievable it is boring ! no one can succes in champions league

[john robbins]

I am a Scot so I know all about boring leagues. The scottish league is bought by Celtic or Rangers every year. If another team has 3 or 4 good players and look like they might provide a challenge the big two come in and buy the players often not playing them in the first team but they know it will stop the other team dead in their tracks. The Premiership is a great league but the more successful it becomes the more successful the big four will become and the less competitive it will be. There is nothing you can do about it. Now and again the big four will have an off season and a lesser team will sneak the league but these days will be few and far between.

[Luis Camara]

Keegan is right all the way the Bosman rule changed footbal for the bad because it made the rich teams more powerful, they can now poach any great player from a weaker side(read money) in the world and get him for a lot less than a market price or wait until his contract runs out. Certain leagues are in crisis because their best players are leaving faster than they can say money

[Richard]

Not only is it boring. But all the romance has been stripped from the game. It was the romance of the likes of Nottingham Forest winning the league and Wimbledon winning the cup that made this sport what it is in this country.

What will the future be now every that the best most school boys can hope for of their local team is finishing fifth at best.

It's sad what has happened to football. I hate to think what it will be in ten year to fifteen years time. When the current generation of youngsters who mostly have been brought up on the glamour of the big four, grow up. Will there be any need or purpose then for the vast majority of professional clubs, who aren't easy armchair fodder for the glory hunting masses.

[Adam Michie]

I think boring is the wrong word. Predictable is more suitable - for the championship challenge anyway. While Man United and Chelsea's struggle for the title going to the wire has made it an interesting finish, the fact that it IS Manchester United and Chelsea vying for the title again, makes it predictable. In the past few seasons the relegation dogfight has been by far and away the more interesting aspect of the league however as this has been utterly unpredictable.

[bill]

If he finds it boring then it's up to him to make it interesting. After all, he has the funds available to at least challenge Liverpool and Arsenal.