Martin Samuel responds: should Ferguson quit if he wins the Champions League?

Sir Alex Ferguson stands on the threshold of securing his second Champions League title with Manchester United. All they have to do is beat Chelsea in the final. That's all! This led to Martin Samuel posing the question: should Ferguson quit if he wins the Champions League? This got you feverishly banging away at your keyboards and below Martin replies to the best of them.

When Jock Stein collapsed and died on September 10, 1985, after Scotland's draw with Wales, the man sitting next to him on the bench was his young assistant manager, Alex Ferguson. I am sure those events had a lasting effect on Sir Alex, showing him the importance of keeping a perspective on the true importance of football. So, if he achieves a second European Cup, I would not be surprised if he decides to leave on a high, with his health intact. David M.

MS: There is obvious logic in this and that is why I think the rumours about Sir Alex stepping down if victorious in Moscow are gaining momentum. I come at it from another angle, I’m afraid. I think of all those guys that stop working, retire to the country to potter about in the garden and are dead in six months. Bored out of their minds. Come on, you all know a story like that. Bill Nicholson went into White Hart Lane every day for years after he retired. Bill Shankly was a pitiful figure, by all accounts, because he missed the involvement. I think retiring is like that moment when a couple decide to have kids. You’ve really got to know you want this; otherwise it does your head in.

No. Not while Ferguson has still got the passion to get into work and watch games across the country. After Manchester United beat Barcelona, he was at Chelsea the next evening watching them defeat Liverpool. Alex still has the hunger and is a good influence on the young millionaires that he manages. KW.

MS: Actually, he was at Ascot the day after United beat Barcelona, indulging his other great passion, and went on to Stamford Bridge later, but this partly explains his longevity. Knowing when to work and when to play is something else that comes with age; Brian Clough started it by holidaying mid-season and achieving this balance is what helps keep Alex sane. That and having a blinding team.

Liverpool have 18 titles, Manchester United 16. Even if they United the league this year, I am sure Ferguson will want a crack at it next season to try to equal Liverpool's record. If he wins it next year, he will then want to better it. He won’t quit. Chris H.

MS: I can see the motivation, Chris, but if he doesn’t win it this year – although I think that is unlikely – or doesn’t win it next year, which is more possible if Chelsea spend big and with Liverpool improving, how long does he hang on waiting for that magic 19? Very few careers end on a high and if Ferguson is mindful of his place in history he will know that, too.

When Ferguson feels he no longer has the necessary drive and energy to continue, he should walk away from the club and sever all ties. The last thing his successor needs is Ferguson's shadow over him because as soon as there is a run of poor results, there would be calls for Ferguson to be reinstated. Ambassadorial roles should be left to former players like Sir Bobby Charlton and Bryan Robson because they pose no threat to the current regime. Anthony.

MS: A fair point, Anthony, but much depends on the man. By all accounts Sir Matt Busby could not leave the management of the club alone after stepping down. Sir Alex may be a different animal, particularly if his friend and ally Carlos Queiroz takes over, and again this comes back to the subject of readiness. If Sir Alex is ready to relinquish control, he poses no threat in whatever new role he has at the club because he can make it plain, publicly, that this is the end of an era as manager. If he is forced to make the change, or is too hasty in his actions, that is when he will cast a shadow.   

Retire? Don't be silly. Sir Alex has a spot of unfinished business with that lot down the East Lancs Road. How about 20 titles for United, plus couple more European Cup wins.
Then the man can retire in peace. Red Devil.

MS: At the age of 90 by the sounds of it. Liverpool’s five European Cups took 28 years to win, AC Milan’s took 31 years, the last five won by Real Madrid were spread over 42 years. Your faith is touching, but give the guy a break.

I would be worried about how the players would react if he left and whether they would stay or not. Jamie Hutber.

MS: I think with Queiroz in charge the Portuguese contingent would stay loyal, and that is no bad start.

Please don't even tempt it. If he left it would be the worst thing to happen to Manchester United. How many other managers consistently turn up to watch the youth and reserve teams? Josh Dickson.

MS: That is his genius, really, treading the perfect line between new and old school. There is nobody quite like him.

The time to retire is when the next rebuilding job begins, at least three years from now. Ferguson has built four great teams at Old Trafford and I wouldn’t expect him to quit when the best of the lot is reaching its peak. Aditya.

MS: The last time he was due to stand down he could not bear to pass his players to another manager, so what has changed? He would be more comfortable leaving them with Queiroz but, frankly, why should he? 

How much longer do we have to have to listen to Martin Samuel talking rubbish about United being the best team in Europe? They were played off the park twice by Barcelona, and have a far inferior head to head against Chelsea these last few years. United may win the title on goal difference, the mark of the flat track bully, but they have lost more games than Chelsea, and if they lose the European Cup final, let us give credit to where it is due. D. Dent.

MS: Well, I thought it was going too smoothly, so thanks for mixing it up a bit, Mr. Dent, even if this is not within a mile of the subject. I’ll accept Chelsea’s record head to head in competitive matches is superior over five seasons (Chelsea W7 D4 L2 F14 A9), and I am beginning to come around to them as winners of the European Cup, but I still believe United have been the best team in Europe over the season, simply for the quality and consistency of their football. Only in the past few weeks have we seen Chelsea hit the same levels of performance as United – in the second-half against Newcastle United, for instance – and they did get lucky with the team Ferguson fielded at Stamford Bridge two weeks ago. As for United being outplayed by Barcelona, the point of the game is to score a goal, something Barcelona failed to do, and rarely looked likely to do, in three hours against United. I could ping the giving credit where it is due comment right back at you, Mr. Dent, not to mention the one about talking rubbish.

Comments

[Potta]

This could be a great year for Ferguson to retire. With vacancies filled at Barcelona, AC Milan etc there is a certain Portugese available to step into the club...

[Roger]

Liverpool improving? Do me a favour, they are no better than last season and considering the effort they've made and they are still fourth. Now with a stymied Board of Directors and still with a manager whose learnt a bit but is way off what Liverpool need, they are going to worsen not improve.

They are definitely the target for all the mid table teams to beat, Blackburn, Villa, Spurs, Everton will all match them next season, there's every chance Liverpool will struggle to make 6th.

[guy]

In response to Damian, an apt name really,its quite clear that over the whole season Man Utd havent been the best side, for the first few months at the start of the season Arsenal were top, so Utd have not been the best team over 'the whole season', merely consistent.United were awful against an at best average Barcelona.And you beat Chelsea at OT in the week Mouriho left and you beat 10 men after Obi Mikel was sent off with only 22mins played.

[alistair]

3 seasons, assuming he wins the premership and cl this year.

[AC]

D.Dent, I don't think you can describe most EPL teams as "fodder". If they were such fodder, why doesn't Chelsea do as well as Man Utd does against them? Perhaps a team can only be considered fodder if you can beat them comfortably, in which case it is better than a team who merely beats the "fodder" in a less comfortable style. Whoever wins the league, deserves it, but the average unbiased fans view is Man U has played better football than Chelsea this season. Perhaps if RA spashes the cash in the summer and buys Messi, Kaka etc than they will also start playing the attractive football you prefer. Although that just reflects the shallowness of Chelsea i.e. go out and buy the best players of the moment. Even Chelsea's transfer targets are boringly predictable.

[Leigh Rogers]

How can they be the best? They are an Ian Wright at arsenal type side with only one goal scorer. Ronaldo has carried this team. If he had got injured Chelsea would already be champions. Also losing five games does not make you the best side in the country. Chelsea will win the league with games to spare next season because the manager turmoil will be over.
By the way, I am an Arsenal fan, certainly not a Chelsea fan.

[Alex]

Nice one, Martin - you really put "D. Dent" in his place!

[D.Dent]

You don't think that losing your manager a week before the biggest game of the season is a factor? One wonders what would have happened to MU if Ferguson had left at the same point

Rolling over EPL fodder is easy. They can't defend players or space, they can't pass, they are technically poor. That's why Utd have 60% possesion against them. They are technically superior to nearly all.
Against teams who retain possesion Utd struggle, as their midfield is weak. Scholes done well with Barca, not from a creative role, because apart from one shot he was defending all the time!

Credit to Ferguson for winning during the RA years, although this year with a functional JM at the helm one would have thought the outcome would have been different.

Next year the chequebook will be out, and RA will spend more than MU's operating profit, that only pays the interest on what they owe anyway...

50M for Kaka?

Head to head Chelsea match up better than Utd, and a fully fit Chelsea are the hardest side to beat in Europe. Another narrow win for the blues in the CL final.

[nugas]

Not a bit. He is there for another couple of years.

[Ed Allen]

Not until we have one more league title more than Liverpool , he went to Old Trafford to knock Liverpool of their perch ,he's done that but one more title than them and he can retire with complete peace of mind, at 19 he'll retire. ( I dont see Liverpool bettering 18 for many years yet). Long live Sir Alex.

[Martin Griffiths]

Have you watched Fergie when United are playing? The pleasure he gets from it is there for all to see. He's like a little boy with joy all over his face. Why on earth would he give that up?

[Quentin]

How is it possible that some "experts" still question United? Yes Chelsea beat them a couple of weeks ago at the Bridge but United won at OT before the turn of the season. I suspect those experts will put that down to Mourinho's departure in the week prior to the game. Having said that, it's all irrelevant! The PL table does'nt lie & although the two are level, United's vastly superior goal difference surely confirm that they deserve the title as they have consistantly played the best football over 38 weeks!

As for the CL final, you need a stroke of luck to win it & i think it's fair to say both teams had it during the season. Chelsea by having a run in so easy their youth team would have made it through & United by relying on their defence to get past Barca, or was it just tactical nouse! It probably was as you don't win games by getting to a 1000 passes in the centre third of the pitch 1st, but by converting your chances.

I don't think the winner of the final will necessarily proof who the best team is, just the one who take their chances on the day.

As for all the Chelsea fans, stop sulking because you're about to loose the Premiership for the second consecutive season and could possibly end up with an empty trophycase. Just spend 200 million quid again & come back next season to try again!

[Lawson]

Ferguson's goal has always been to go one better than Matt Busby. If he hangs around for 26years, he will be United's longest serving manager. So the plan is for him to ride gracefully into sunset 2012, just before the Olympics in London!

[Harry]

Spot on as always, Martin. Y=Insightful and logical, I like your approach of giving an opinion and then providing reasons for that. It makes sense.

Personally I'd like to see Sir Alex carry on for another 3 years and then hand it over. Be it Queiroz, Hughes, Keane or O'Neill. A friend of mine suggested that O'Neill knowledge and manipulation of the transfer market isn't up to scratch. Would,you agree?

[Mike]

Let's not forget that United have scored more goals than anyone, had fewer scored against them than anyone and won more games than anyone in the PL this season. All this while playing attractive football with exciting players. Of course they deserve to win the title.
People who understand the game could see that they tactically nullified Barca by using the same system they often employ against Arsenal: allow them to play their pretty patterns in front of your back four, but don't let them get behind you. That is why United beat Barcelona and why the Catalans, whose only real threat came from the sometimes unplayable Lionel Messi, couldn't score. But no one ever credits Fergie for getting it right tactically, which he does so often these days.
Let's give respect where it is due: this man has won twice as many trophies as all his Premier League rivals put together. He is, quite simply, unequivocally, the best! There is nothing Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool fans would like more than for him to retire, but I suspect he'll stick around for at least two more seasons, yet, to see his present side mature a little, so they can dream on!

[D.Dent]

You don't "deserve" to win anything in football. Arsenal have played the best football, the beautiful game, this season and threw away the title. Chelsea are the hardest team to beat in Europe, but grind out results. Utd are a mix of both, and, are top on merit.

Who's the best? That's a subjective question, but head to head gives a fair picture. You can't count rolling over the EPL fodder.

The more astute of us here, still aren't sure if MS has MUFC at the top of his notepaper when he drafts articles...

[Paul Bundy]

Funny, i thought the aim of the game was to score more goals than the other team? When i checked barca didn't score any and united scored 1. I would rather win games than play 'really well' and lose?

You are not going to play really well every game but by grinding out the results shows true champions and united didn't get to the top by accident.

The league is not there for Chelsea to win, its there for united to throw away which it has been all season.

United will the league and the champions league, which they deserve

[D.Dent]

Funny, I must have missed the "beautiful game" against Barcelona. Oh wait, Utd were chasing shadows and possesion for two games with practically 10 men behind the ball. Barca had more shots, more corners, more everything, except one goal.

But, that's "tactical awareness" isn't it, when Utd do it, even when they had no choice.

Only one team played the beautiful game, and it wasn't Utd.

They should win the league, but Chelsea will prove again, head to head, who is the better side.

[Thomas Fennell]

In response to Damian, Man Utd only scored once in the two games against Barca and that was because of a stroke of genius by scholes. They defended for the other 179 minutes of football.
You can't say they were the better team.
No reason for fergie to go, why would he give this team to someone else after spending years and an awful lot of money (as much as chelsea) putting it together.

[Sam]

I support Chelsea, not a new one at that either. But by God if Sir Alex retires then he would be missed, as much as I hate seeing him and his never ending piece of gum I would really be dissapointed to see him go.

You have to give credit where its due, and Sir Alex is a legend of the PL, it would be a shame not to see his brilliance anymore, the last thing we need right now is for another average manager taking over and ruining 20 years worth of heart and soul.

I hate United, I hate Sir Alex. I respect both.

[Ste]

Most people agree with Sir Alex that this is the best squad he has ever had, and he will strengthen it in summer. How could he even think of giving it up before he has tried it out. I think he will wait at least three more seasons, and maybe longer if the team achieves its potential.

[Damian]

Dent - is this a reference to something on your head? Played off the park TWICE? How many goals did Barca score in the two games, ZERO...that’s how good they were, TWICE! Yes, Chelsea are playing some good football these last few weeks and United have come off the boil, but United aren't in front of Chelsea because they have bullied their way into top stop, they have scored more goals than anyone else by playing the BEST football in Europe over the whole season! If Chelsea win in Moscow, fair play, they deserve to win because they will have scored more goals on the day that counts but it will not change my mind that over the WHOLE season United have been the best side!