Where does Walter Smith rank among the Scottish greats?

Walter Smith is about to join an elite band of Scottish football mangers who have led their clubs into a European final. Eight other men - Sir Matt Busby, Jock Stein, Bill Shankly, Scot Symon, Willie Waddell, Sir Alex Ferguson, Jim McLean and George Graham - have enjoyed the honour before him.

Of that group, only Busby, Stein and Ferguson have won the European Cup. Shankly led Liverpool to both a European Cup Winners Cup final, which they lost, and a Uefa Cup final, which they won. Symon and George won the Cup Winners Cup, with Rangers in 1972 and Arsenal in 1994 respectively, while Waddell twice lost in the final of that competition with Rangers. McLean led Dundee United to the 1987 Uefa Cup final, which they lost.

Smith has enjoyed phenomenal success in his two tours of duty with Rangers, including winning seven SPL titles, three Scottish Cups and four League Cups in the 1990s. Against this, however, Smith never took Everton higher than 14th in his four seasons at Goodison Park and is recalled with mixed feelings on Merseyside.

The question is, where does Smith rank in the pantheon of good or great Scottish managers? Does he deserve to be even quoted among the elite, or is it more appropriate to merely rank him among the Rangers managers? Remember, this season Smith is successfully chasing four trophies.

GRAHAM SPIERS

Comments

[jack]

Please don't forget that Walter Smith was the coach to McLean's manger at Dundee Utd - including the cup final loss to Sven's highly rated Gothenberg. What Dundee Utd did in Europe was remarkable (seeded regularly, feared (one foreign coach accused them of being on drugs!), hammering the likes of Monaco and M'gladbach, and of course Barca home and away) - overachievements bettered perhaps in the history of British football only by Clough and Fergie.

[TSFB]

Tricky to compare those that only managed in Scotland with those that managed only in England or those that managed in both leagues.

Ferguson did both successfully. Smith did both with less success in England and, at least before his exalted second coming, wasn't hugely rated by some Rangers fans.

Stein of course suffered a miserable, but brief, stay at Leeds. That said Stein won nine championships and a European Cup at a time when, arguably, Rangers were far stronger challengers than Celtic were during Smith's period of dominance.

Mclean didn't manage in England but what he and Ferguson achieved with the "New Firm" in the 80's was on a par with what Clough achieved with Derby and Forest.

Shankly and Busby built the legends that sustain Manchester United and Liverpool as giants today.

So my list is:

1. Ferguson
2= Shankly
2= Busby
4 Stein
5 McLean

[Syed]

1 Moyes
2 Smith
3 Busby
4 Ferguson
5 Shankly

[Mike]

And what has Davey Moyes done at Everton after Walter left - seems to be something in common there? Davey hasn't got Everton to any final.

[Dirty Leftie]

I would say that Walter Smith is a very experienced and capable coach.

After previous success at Ibrox, with plenty of money to spend, he has now turned Rangers around in a relatively short space of time and made them, with limited resources, an effective, hard-to-beat team, by using a system which best utilises the limited abilities of his squad of players.

However, the quality of football on display is abysmally negative; it's supposed to be entertainment!

For these reasons, I don't think that Smith can be considered as one of the Scottish greats. For me, part of this would embody a desire to win and win well, while providing drama and excitement, and the current Rangers team could not be accused of this in any way.

Stein, Busby, Shankly and Ferguson were/are all great managers (and great men). I don't consider that Smith belongs in such exalted company (at least not yet).

[Tony]

It beggars belief to compare Smith to the great Scottish managers. Stein, Busby, Fergie and Shankly all had their teams playing wonderful flowing football with the ball mostly on the deck and their teams attacking opponents ruthlessly. Smith's Rangers are dire, turgid and bereft of any ideas whatsoever. They rely on packing the defence and midfield tightly together behind the ball and hoping for a break with their one attacker. Don't insult our intelligence by comparing Rangers anti-football to the achievements of Man Utd, Celtic and Liverpool. At least they all had the "balls" to take opponents on in their half of the pitch! It'll come as no surprise if the UEFA cup final goes to penalties after a 0-0 draw.

[Darrel Pugh]

Walter Smith single handedly caused me to give up on football I have never seen so much dross served up at Everton, with players all over the age 35 it was terrible. I would debate if he could even be described as a manager?

[Doug Molyneux]

1. Ferguson
2. Busby
3. Stein
4. Shankly
5. Smith
Ferguson's record is second to none having had phenomenal success in Scotland and England over a 30 year period. Busby had to rebuid a team winning the European Cup 10 years after Munich. Stein is a legend but largely confined to Scotland. Shankly didn't hang around long enough to be a legend in Europe. Smith beats McLean into 5th as he has had more domestic success and was relatively successful as the national team amanger.

[Paul Evans]

To Rakesh Sondhi,

Since when was O'Neil Scottish?

[rakesh sondhi]

1 - Stein
2 - Busby
3 - Ferguson
4 - McLean
5 - O'Neill

Smith did far better with Scotland than I imagined but such is the brand of anti-football his teams play that I wouldn't put him in my top five. Time yet for Fergie to move up though.

[Spotty Dog]

Jim McLean didnt win a European trophy, but what he achieved in Scotland & in Europe was miraculous considering the budget he had to work with. Dundee United should have faced Liverpool in the '84 Champions final, but were cheated out of it by some very dubious refereeing in Rome. Didnt that ref that night admit, years later, that he had been "bought"?

[ryan matthews]

As a everton fan I can assure you Walter Smith is no great! winning 7 titles in a league that has only 1 realistic challenger?! The Scotish lague is simply not as good as many other leagues. Full marks for Smith in the Uefa cup but they havn't (and in my opinion wont) won it yet. He did nothing with Everton and I was a season ticket holder every year he was there, he spent a lot more than most in that era as well. I never seen one peice of tactical guile and he had the charisma of a door hinge. Please dont put him among those greats!!!

[Tom-Not a bluenose]

It was Scot Symon who managed Rangers to defeats in the Cup-winners Cup Finals of 61 and 67 and Waddell who managed the 1972.

[Graham]

Tommy Walker is not mentioned I note. His team never achieved anything in the early days of European football. However their silky football obtained a record 132 league goals while winning the league (13 points clear) in 1958.

An achievement rarely mentioned by the Glasgow media, and that without the aid of Rev McCurry!

[Scott]

Sir Alex should be no. 1 even if he fails in this ECL final - the European Champions League is a lot harder format that the old black & white TV European Cup.
Next Shanks - I think to bring Liverpool up from the lower divisions & establish a dynasty which has lasted and won more Euro honours is more than any single cup honours. Sir Matt Busby to come back from the Munich disaster and win the old European Cup was incredible. Next Big Jock for winning a first European Cup for the UK. Then if Walter does the business on Wed he should come next. To be in for a quaddie after PLG destroyed Rangers last season is an incredible feat.

What about George Graham?

[Colin Blues]

Walter Smith is nowhere near this list at all.

7 titles, at least 6 were won with about 5 times the budget as any other club and Celtic way out the picture for at least 5 of them.

Smith is a nice guy no doubt and did great work with Scotland recently, but never a great, NEVER!!

[P Flannery]

He has done with Rangers what he did with Scotland, beat better quality teams by using guile and tactics. He was heralded for that, and so he should be for this.
Celtic's stats for this season are all better than last year, yet Rangers have potentially won the title.
His teams do not play attractive football, but they win games.
Ultimatley it comes down to what you want from your football team, win competitions or play attractive football. Rangers fans can not have both, but I bet they are more than happy with what they currently have.