Martin Samuel's Debate: Should Sir Alex fear Arsenal?

Mikaël Silvestre is the first Manchester United player to be sold to Arsenal in 34 years. That can mean only one thing. Either Sir Alex Ferguson does not fancy Arsenal, or he does not fancy Silvestre: probably both.

Debate: Should Ferguson fear Arsenal?

Have your say - please leave a comment in the box below. Martin Samuel, the seven-times Sports Writer of the Year, will be back to tackle the best of your remarks on Wednesday. 

Read more of Martin Samuel: It's high time Steven Gerrard moved from comfort zone with England

Comments

[gaz-baz]

yes
be afraid.....
be very afraid.... muah-HA-ha-uAH-ha..ha-ha..
MUAH-ha HA-HA HAHA ha hA
....... MUah ha ha hahahah ha ha HAH ! !

[iandel]

Fergie was probably as surprised as the rest of us. I agree with you though - You don't sell players to your main rivals, so can only conclude that he's not too worried by Arsenal. The Fulham game already suggests that Arsenal wont have the squad depth to scrap out wins when missing key players.

[Trahearne]

should Ferguson fear Wenger? not at all. Ferguson's a far better manager. Letting Arsenal sign an old, crippled French left back just shows this. Arsenal are now weaker after they swapped fast, exciting Traore for Silvestre. Although Senderos is rubbish, its another player gone. No one should rule Arsenal out, especially as United have no strikers right now, but Arsenal's squad is completely depleted. They need David Silva and Yaya Toure/

[Rightfooter]

Sir Alex, with his experience around the blocks, would have considered everything before sanctioning the move.

While there is no reason to doubt what he said about Silvestre deserving the move, since he has a track record of rewarding loyal players under him, he definitely does not rate Arsenal as THE primary threat.

Nor does he think Silvestre in the Arsenal ranks would be capable of nullifying his team's attack if they meet in combat.

He respects all opposition, certainly an Arsenal team that could take points off his team (then again even Portmouth counts as one), but he surely knows that the team that ends the season in front of Chelsea will be champions.

He's built enough teams to realise that continuity and stability is essential. It wasn't the signing of 4 players in Anderson, Nani, Hargreaves and Tevez that won him the Double - it was the successful integration of them into a stable nucleus. Even Rooney & Ronaldo had been around for 5 years prior to their arrival. The new additions played only when they showed excellent form that could supplement what the team had. There was no undue pressure on them in their first season.

Arsenal's rebuilding had barely started after the Henry/Viera era and already the scaffolding's been torn down and its starting from scratch again. Vital players such as Hleb, Gilberto, Flamini are gone for good, while Eduardo and Van Persie have long term health and therefore form/fitness issues. It has got to be demoralizing, if not utterly disruptive.

Sir Alex will always be wary of Arsene's Arsenal in the long term, but definitely not this season. Not while they are replacing half a first team.

[Rod]

Arsenal probably aren't going to win the league this season (too many injuries already have exposed the limited squad), but the Silvestre move works for both sides. United have enough cover in defence, Arsenal lack experience. The move is a good stop gap while Djourou & Traore get more first team football - and if Toure or Gallas get injured they don;t have to worry about Senderos.

Ferguson deep down knows Arsenal are not their main rivals this year (Chelsea) - even if he has great respect for Wenger. It might be a different story next year but if it is, it won't be for one player having made the move.

[bob]

What is the point of Arsenal these days? It certainly isn't winning trophies.
Mourinho had Wenger spot on, but he's fooled the English press (easier than the myth suggests).

Wenger nicks other club's youth players whilst maintaining the most hypocritical, sanctimonious stance, his attitude to officials is terrible (remember his pathetic conspiracy theories of last season) etc.
Yet all we get from the media is saint arsene and his marvellous contribution to English football. If every other manager followed his example there'd be zero English players in our top league. Marvellous contribution, yeah.

[Mike]

The Silvestre transfer says more about the player than the clubs involved.

He was an excellent professional for United, but I think SAF no longer saw him as a decisive player in a championship race. And with Neville back (allowing Brown to provide cover in the center) and the da Silva twins looking ready to fight for their spots, Silvestre would have struggled to make the 7 man bench.

After their great run last year - despite their inexperience and a terrible run of injuries - it would be foolish to ignore Arsenal as a chief competitor.

[Leslie Smyth]

The reason for Arsenal's poor start -which will continue for the rest of the season- is due to the loss of Flamini and Helb. Simple as that. Along with Fabregas they were the mainstay of the team and they have not been replaced.
AW needs to pull somthing out of the hat pretty quickly!

[Bob Elllis]

Should Ferguson fear Arsenal?
Certainly not Arsenal are a spent force. However he should fear a club with the most dynamic young manager. The bet youth academy. At least five superb home grown players with more to come. Two splendid Brazilians. A magnificent winger. International defenders. Two (injured class strikers. The best supporters inn the North West. I do not mean Everton.
Incidentally where does Matin Samuel get off calling the Holy City a Fred Karno operation? He supports West Ham for God's sake!

[Stanley Downey]

Sir Alex can't lose.
He keeps MS & all his long serving stalwarts (Giggs, Scholes, Neville) happy insomuch as they believe they'll be looked after if they keep their noses clean. Arsenal gain a player that will make no impact on their team and unless they get a captain & serious central defender, they'll be in a dogfight for 4th place.

[Paul]

How is it clubs such as sunderland can splash the cash but Arsenal can't. So they built the Emriates that's financed over years like you buy a house, it hasn't crippled them. I suspect although no one seems to know Wenger has money but doesn't want to spend it as then he has no excuse, he's just like everyone else, like Sunderland who can spend 50 million a year.

With T.V. money all clubs have about 50 million each summer so where does Arsenals money go??? not on players.

They are desperately in need of talent. Ababayor is a joke and looks after 2 games like he wishes he was elsewhere. Senderos the latest to join the exodus. They need a hardman in midfield, that doesn't have to be expensive, but someone older would be good in the Petit mould.

Defence goalkeeper, 2 centre backs. There seems to have been too much belief by Wenger that he can change the ordinary into the superman but with the likes of Eboue you can't change the way he thinks.

I'll sign off on the note Wenger studied economics at university and being economical seems to be getting in the way.

[Adam Michie]

Regardless of whether or not Sir Alex sees Arsenal as title rivals, he would be foolish not to respect the danger they pose as an opposition in their two head to head Premiership fixtures. Arsenal do have the potential to take six points off United in a season and if you look at how last season panned out, that would mean the difference between champions and runners up.

[Markobaggio]

Alright Martin,

I have to say i had a good chuckle at the thought of the "debate" this week. As a man utd fan i have to say best of luck to Silvestre he gave us 9 yrs of good service so he deserved a move to whatever club he wanted. Hes of an age now were he will never going to get any better than when he was at us..... On that point though Silvestre always had the ability to blunder in a few games a season... Arsene however seems to like this type of player, remember stepanovs, replaced by cygan, replaced by senderos, replaced by silvestre..... Although they play beautiful football the gunners i feel have had to take two steps back to try move forward. Wenger seems to be looking long term and for the life of me i dont see how they will hld onto 3rd this yr never mind scare fergie.

They are centrally weak, Gallas doesnt seem to be a captain even though hes experienced and won many trophies, they rely heavily on cesc and they lack a decent goalkeeper. Compare this to liverpool, chelsea or utd who have strong, physical teams capable of going away to Bolton in december and getting 3 points.

Unfortunately for arsene i think he is being over optimistic this year in suggesting they can challenge for the title.... Very few teams have won it with kids and i would suggest that now it is far more difficult than it was when Beckham and co cleaned up in the 90's.

Nope i see Wengers boys fighting it out with Martin Oneills men for 4th.

[Sean McGarraghy]

Ferguson may have feared Arsenal ever so slightly before this transfer; but no longer, now that Arsenal have bought the accident waiting to happen known as Mikael Silvestre. I agree with the person who said that watching Silvestre play for your team makes you nervous. In this regard he was a worthy successor to David May, and saw off the few seasons' half-hearted efforts of Rio Ferdinand to compete. It is safer to play him at left back, since the consequences of a lapse are usually less, but he has himself said he prefers centre back. OTOH, he may regard this as a last opportunity - needing to be grasped - to establish himself as a real footballer, and can hardly be worse than Senderos: and he won't lack in effort.I wish him the best of luck.

PS TOL: get a spellchecker that understands UK English: this one objects to "centre"!

[Thomas Macaulay]

Fergie will never neglect the threat of Arsenal, not since Wenger won the double in his first full season in charge, after Fergie had dismissed him as a "guru." Last season, when the Gunners were written off by journalists, rival clubs and even most of their own fans, Fergie was the only one still publicly admitting his fear of the Arsenal. Fergie may have lost faith in Silvestre, but he clearly saw enough in him to keep the player at United for nine years. It's a money saving measure that removes an injury and error-prone member of the roster, but United could struggle due to a lack of back-up in defence.

[Tomred]

I think it is indeed a combination of not rating Silvestre and not fearing Arsenal.

Silvestre has the attributes of a fine defender. He is pacey, strong and, when he concentrates, can anticipate well. The problem is that his concentration levels are akin to those of a young Rio Ferdinand. This was possibly best illustrated last season when a United player threw the ball in to Silvestre who, not paying attention, picked the ball up and went to take the throw himself. Result? Free-kick for hand-ball on the edge of the United box.

The emergence of Patrice Evra as the best left back around and the signing of the Da Silva twins, along with having the likes of John O'Shea as a utility player, appear to have United's left side of defence amply catered for.

Silvestre is unlikely to have been helped by his advancing years and the fact that he appears to have become considerably more injury prone with age.

With Arsenal getting rid of Senderos they appear to be merely replacing one inconsistent defender with another - considerably older - one. I struggle to see where they have strengthened their first eleven, or even their squad, since last season, when they were shown to be quite a way short of challenging United over the full duration of the season.

[The Bear]

There's alot of negativity surrounding Arsenal at the moment.

I have to say I personally think We're only 1-2 signings away from another Title Winning Side. (however its a fine balance, i think if we dont sign we will finish third- behing United and Chelsea)

Alonso or Barry would both be great signings (particularly Xabi as i think he would suit our technical style).

Arsene said at the start of the Season that he sees Diaby as Fabregas's long term midfield partner and i have to say i think its a combination that could work very well.

The team is stronger than many beleive and with everyone fit:
--------Almunia
Sagna-Toure-Gllas-Clichy
Nasri-Fabregas-Diaby-Rosicky
----VanPersie-Adebayor.
Our team is as good as anyone's.

[Harry Boulton]

You could forgive Ferguson for being dismissive of Arsenal, if indeed he is. Their squad looks paper thin to me. If they were in the hands of any other manager other than Wenger then I think they'd be distinctly average. Wengers tactical nouse coupled with his motivational qualities should see them into the top 4 but the title and the Champions League are well beyond them at the moment. As talented as Nasri is, Wenger promised the fans experience and proven quality, not another kid.

[Sharpe]

I seem to remember around this time last season, Arsenal being widely dismissed for various reasons including the departure of a star player, question marks over Adebayors ability, a seemingly flimsy midfield and a lack of depth at the back.

That "flawed" team finished 4 points behind the champions so yes Ferguson should be very afraid!

I still think Arsenal are a world class goalkeeper away from the title though...

[Timothy Tanner]

I think the situation for the transfer was simply, contract running out on an injury prone squad player with a grand total of six games last season. He would have been allowed to go to any team rather then have him wait till January to sign for said team.

As for should Ferguson fear Arsenal? He may respect Arsene but this current Arsenal side? No. Almunia is a capable deputy but is going to have to make rapid strides to be top class while the Toure-Gallas partnership has been shown to be faulty. On the ground, they are capable but lack areal ability so watch us get pounded that way. I also think Toure isn't good enough as a first choice centreback, Senderos and Djorou are young so their poor positioning is forgiveable whereas Toure is getting near his peak and still making the same errors. In midfield, the loss of Hleb is a huge blow that most fans will only realise as the season goes on, a player with his ability to suddenly open up a defence is going to be very hard to replace and we need to bring a ball winner. Our attack is very strong though, once Van Persie finds his form, we will score a lot of goals.

I was quite confident until I find out Senderos was going on loan, now we need a ball winner in midfield and a centreback to replace Toure to have any chance of a strong title challenge I think.

[Robert Smyth]

Alex Ferguson will treat Arsenal with the respect that they deserve and have earned. No doubt. Silvestre has gone because the Brazilians have landed at OT and he is surplus to requirements. He is better than Senderos so he has improved Arsenal as well.

Arsenal still won't win the league though, they are too brittle and their expectations are low. This would be OK in a year where there is one strong contender, but with Chelsea upping the stakes, they have to get passed two.

They could however overtake United for second if they get an injury free run. A bit like in motor racing where the 2nd placed runner is too busy concentrating on catching 1st to realise that they have been overtaken themselves. And this is the year for this to happen as United will be in catch up mode because of their tough campaign start.

[Sam]

To be honest Saturday's performance was really shocking and I have to concede that Arsenal are not going to win the league this season.

The fact we started the game with Eboue and Denilson in the midfield tells it's own story. The fact that we were only missing Cesc Fabregas from centre midfield tells another. Not one of our starting midfielders on Saturday had played a full Premier League season in the position they started in.

Arsene knows that Rosicky and Eduardo are long term injuries and yet there has been no real attempt to bolster the squad. Who did we have on the bench who may have been able to rescue the game? Alex Song and a bunch of teenagers.

Arsenal have the "potential" to win the league but without the addition of at least two experienced players, preferably at least one with Premier League experience, this may never happen.

Does Sir Alex Ferguson fear Arsenal? Absolutely not.

[arsenal fan]

Henry...henry..henry...........
thats why i'm so impressed to watch every moment of arsenal's games before...
but today, i'm does't feel wenger had develop a team like before.....................
adebayor mentality too defensive, can't make a move individually....wallcot - more and much offensive mentality than adebayor, have a good pace but very very rare to reach shot on target........fabregas - most value player at arsenal for the moment......senderos - lack of defence quality......clichy, eboue, sagna - very fast with the ball...lastly, wenger - the man who can find and develop player such as henry, viera, pires, anelka, boe morte, and many-many more.....THATS WHY FERGUSON SHOULD FEAR TO ARSENALS SIDES!!!!!!

[Brian McCauley]

Arsenal are breaking my heart. Wenger persists with pacy central defenders who don't have the required aggression to dominate a top quality striker. Silvestre is another pacy centre back in the Toure/Gallas mould although he probably has a lot more character than Gallas. Where are the Adams, the Vieiras? Fabregas has a bit of steel and Clichy will work his heart out for the team but outside of those two, who will put their body on the line for the sake of the team? Once young players were synonomous with hunger and effort, now they're overpaid primma donnas who can relax secure in the knowledge that they'll retire a millionaire.

['Mide]

I think Wenger is just doing business as usual with Silvestre...rememember Diarra? buy 'em for cheap sell 'em in the next transfer window for some more. R u feeling me y'all? And Adrian Blight, it's incorrect to say Clichy, Sagna and Fab., can only make it to the bench of ManU, chelski or Liverpool..absolutely wrong when they were all voted alongside with Ade. in the premiership's best eleven. check yur records or view more premiership matches..asides that, i agree with you Adrian all the way