Steven Gerrard's problem is Steven Gerrard

The debates have been endless: why can't Frank Lampard and Steven Gerrard get it together for England? Who is the better player of the two? Why would Luiz Felipe Scolari find a place for both of them at Chelsea while Capello can not?

But Martin Samuel believes he has the answer: it's got nothing to do with Lampard.

In his report of England's 5-1 victory over Kazakhstan, Samuel writes: "There is still a debate about Gerrard, but one feels more confident that Capello will have the nerve to resolve it.

"Perhaps it is time to stop thinking of Gerrard’s problem as Frank Lampard. Gerrard’s problem is Gerrard. Lampard was required to play as an attacking midfield player away to Andorra and did it. He was asked to be a guarding midfield player in Croatia and showed great discipline. On Saturday he had no problem when Capello switched the shape to 4-3-3.

"The standard logic is that Gerrard has suffered for England because he is so versatile. He is moved to the left, to the right, played behind the striker, he is never given his favourite position. Yet, partly, this is because he has never made that central position his own. Lampard was voted England’s player of the year before going off the boil in 2006. Now that he is back to his best, he is consistently the outstanding individual in England’s midfield.

"It is not good enough to keep trotting out the line that Gerrard is the better all-round footballer. His performances for England are no longer suggesting this. Capello took off Gareth Barry at half-time on Saturday but is unlikely to be as cavalier against Belarus with Alexander Hleb, even half-fit, on the prowl. Gerrard may be returned to a starting position on the left and told to come inside to link up with Rooney and Emile Heskey. He may not like this, but there was nothing in his performance on Saturday that suggested further indulgence would benefit the team; Lampard and Barry are the best central pairing right now."

What do you make of that? Has Lampard got the edge over Gerrard? Can the Liverpool player make one of those central midfield berths his own? Or has he had enough chances? Should Gerrard be third choice behind Lampard and Barry?

Leave your comments below.

Comments

[Tom]

I see no reason why Gerrard shouldn't be dropped from the team if he doesn't perform. Capello can't run the England team exactly the way Liverpool is run, just for the sake of getting the best out of Gerrard. If he's not compatible, then drop him. As much as he's the best midfielder in the Premiership, if he doesn't fit into the England team then he should be dropped. England fans still dislike Lamps and that's why they wont admit that he's currently better suited for the England team (under Capello) than Gerrard is. If Capello can find a way of fitting Stevie G in perfectly, then so be it, but the midfield (and the team at large) shouldn't be sacrificed just to fit Gerrard in.

[Robert Thomas, Dublin]

Kenny,

I think you're missing the point.

When Gerrard complains about having to 'do a job' in various positions he is also referring to his No.10 role in Liverpool's 4-2-3-1 last season. But then, as you rightly say, he doesn't want to play as either a holding midfielder or as an orthodox central midfielder. The role in which a player is 'free to roam' is the tradtional No10 role in a midfield diamond behind two strikers. As Joe Cole (who demonstrates more appreciation of the tactical trends of the world game) has pointed out in an interview with this paper, very few teams nowadays set up around their No.10 this way, save say Argentina with Riquelme and Werder Bremen with Diego and AC Milan with Kaka. Increasingly the playmaker is being asked to play behind one striker in the 4-2-3-1 or adapt to becoming a false winger (like Cole himself or Ronaldinho at Barcelona) or even a more orthodox midfielder such as Deco has become since leaving Porto in 2004. So what exactly is Gerrard asking? That England play a specific 4-3-1-2 around him? Surely such a huge indulgence is only reserved for fantasy-type players like Cole in the Hoddle, Zidane, Boban, Ronaldinho ( I could go on...) mould

[Robert Thomas, Dublin]

Chris,

By 3-1-4-2, I presume you mean the 3-3-2-2 that some South American teams use: but crucially, you need attacking fullbacks or wing-backs instead of wingers, otherwise it is too offensive with only the back 3 plus the holding midfielder behind the ball. If you want to persist with wingers and yet keep the back three, then the shape would resemble the 3-3-1-3 'Ajax' formation, used by Van Gaal and also Chile's coach Marcelo Bielsa. If you wish to keep Gerrard and Lampard in the twin attacking midfield roles, then go with the 3-3-2-2.

--------Brown---------Terry-------Ferdinand------

--Hargreaves-------Barry/Carrick..........A.Cole

------------Lampard------------Gerrard------------

-------------Rooney-----------other striker--------

--------Brown---------Terry-------Ferdinand------

--Hargreaves-------Barry/Carrick..........A.Cole

---------------------Gerrard/J Cole -----------------

Walcott------------CentreFwd-------------J.Cole

[claude]

Am a man u fan and having gerrard is a blessing both lams and gerrard should be given a chance but gerrard should not play the second fiddle he should be given space to unleash his potential like he does for liverpool at the end of the day what we want is the three points and good football coupled with good results

[Ika]

I watched the game on Saturday, Great victory to England. Being a Zambian citizen watching the game from the heart of Africa, and, moreover, watching as many England games as possible, I have come to one conclusion: Between Gerrard and Lampard, Gerrard is the better player for England. While Lampard has his on and off periods during his appearances, Gerrard seems a constant player for the club, making the best of plays in the differents posititons he is ordered to play. He has played in positions of defence, striker, backup striker, leftl and right wing positions and his favourite position, Midfield. He has never failed to perform in these various positions even though a player needs to have a constant position where he plays best. Lampard on the other hand is a good player when he sees it fit. He is not always in best form and can only play in limited position. Coach Capello has a big task ahead of him in ensuring that both these players perform to the benefit of the whole team. Gerrard can play various positions and Lampard can only play so much, the coach should especially try out if the two can play alongside eachother or not especially during friendly matches.
Overall, the Liverpool captain has shown skill and there is potential for him to do better than he is currently doing.
I enjoy watching England play. All the best.

[Timothy Tanner]

It is a case of whoever is on form gets the role alongside one holding player who gives balance. At the moment, that is Lampard, three assists, a goal ruled out in three games, countless moves brought about by his passing and performed superbly against Croatia.

Gerrrard is unfortunate that he was injured for the first two and in the third game, ended as dm for 45 minutes. When asked to restrain himself like that or pushed out wide, he can still do well but your not going to get "rampage a lot" so people think he hasn't performed, which is a bit unfair. He also seems to be feeling the pressure of not playing well, he would benefit once he relaxed. He will return on form and hopefully we will have two amazing cm's again.

[Eduardo Flores]

If (1) England are incapable of playing other than a straight 4-4-2, with two wide and two central midfielders and (2) Lampard and Gerrard cannot play together, and there's no great evidence to the contrary, then the writing's on the wall: Lampard's the form player and should start alongside Barry/ Hargreaves/ Carrick.

[Mark Horner]

Gerrard didn't have his best game for England on Saturday, but he was still better than average. The technical analysis reveals him recording the most successful tackles and creating the most chances by a wide margin.

[Simon Wiseman]

Firstly I think Englands performance on Saturday needs to be put into context: It was woeful and the result only flattered England and did no justice to the Kazaks.

Englands away performance to Croatia was excellent and raises the question of why you would want to play Lampard and Gerard together anyway. However you have to ask, were the Croatians below par compared to previous games, which allowed Lampard ....and others to look good.

I dont think either of them had a good game on Saturday but i will say this . Gerard saved the day in defence twice when England were all at sea at a time when the game was very much in the balance. Perhaps the time has come to use Gerard in a defensive central role like a Makalele perhaps.......or just drop him and solve the connundrum for good.

Was Barry even on the field in this game....i dont remember him touching the ball !!

Unfortunately i dont believe that Lampard will ultimately be the answer game after game. Lets face it he plays in a superb club side with such good players that allow him to roam free and attack and shoot from around the box.....I dont think he has the capacity to make things happen when it gets tough and tight in a game.

Who knows the answer , but the fact is that Saturdays performance was a shocker and it was a lucky win.......dont be fooled.

[Fil]

Catch up with the plot ... don't waste your time, energy or frustration with England football diddely squat ! Waste of time ! Stopped watching them in Italia 90 after my 3rd consecutive world cup tournament in the flesh. We just dont have the talent. Enjoy your local Premiership team and leave it at that. Life is so much easier to endure.

[Russell]

Gerrard has still yet to put in a world class performance for England since he has been playing. Its always excuse after excuse for made for him, that he is played out of position and that other players ruin his game, what a load of rubbish.

Him being out of position does not make him constantly give the ball away and scuff his shots, its his ability, his short game is well below par and that's why he always goes for the hollywood ball, that rarely actually works but just surrenders possession!

Lampard is a better tactical player and keeps hold of the ball and plays more killer balls throughout the game.

Gerrard should be dropped for a while so he can get some passion for playing for England, he never looks tired or bothered whenever you see him! Or maybe he could get another sore toe and bottle it again!

[Chris]

How about a 3-5-2?

or more like a 3-1-4-2?

With Ferdinand, Terry and Brown or Lescott or Woodgate at the back.
Barry, Hargreaves or Carrick sitting in front.
Both Gerrard and Lampard free to go forward as attacking midfielders.
Walcott, Cole and Wright-Phillips as wingers.
Owen and Rooney up front.

anybody think this is the way forward?

[Alan Humphrey]

Just for the record I am a chelsea fan and have been for over 45 yrs. it is encouriging to see Frank back in form as I personally think he struggled last year.Stevie G is also a world class player & just to throw a cat in amongst the pigeons the best game I have ever seen him play was as the holding midfield player a couple of years ago , he was simply superb . I would play them both, with Lamps, as predominately the attacking of the two but would tell them from time to time alternate , not in an attempt to satisfy any egos but to prevent the opposition with a constantly changing problem to solve . in my opinion all of the best world sides have had intelligent players who can change pattern constantly & be adaptable when necessary I guess similar the great Dutch team of Cruyf & co.

[Paul Bergin]

This isn't the Premiership. And just because we've seen these players perform in the self-proclaimed 'greatest league in the world' doesn't mean that these stars can do it on the international stage.

We saw, in Shevchenko, one of Europe's finest strikers of the last decade fail to adapt to the Premiership's pace. Could it be the same for Gerrard? The international scene requires a patience and tactical discipline you will rarely see in his game at Anfield. Under his current manager he has played in a side that is based to afford him the free play that brings out his devastating best: a somewhat unwanted cycle has developed whereby two holding midfielders were played to allow Gerrard the freedom he desires while accompanying his tactical indiscipline, all the while he grew ever more indisciplined to what is expected of his natural position.

Lampard has shown more of it, if only because Mourinho would have demanded that his entire midfield defend when under pressure. As Martin has said before, for either or both (in a 4-3-3) to play a central midfield role a disciplined holding midfielder will have to resist all urge to show their ability with a football going forward, but one wonders whether a single defensive-minded midfielder is enough for Gerrard. I don't believe it's the same case with Lampard. Nor do I believe that playing Lampard in the central berth would take more from the other stars in the team: the case in point that Chelsea have based their sides around the abilities of more than (a maximum of) one other player other than Gerrard (see Torres now or Owen years ago). That is to say Chelsea have built their sides to accommodate the likes of Drogba, Terry, Robben etc.

Thinking ahead to the next World Cup (should England qualify) and should there be any realistic chances of making the latter stages you need a strong defensive, center of midfield. The South American sides will not play with wingers and will play through the middle, while Gerrard performing the 'headless-chicken' routine often seen (not just by him) in the league will only realistically result in one thing.

England, for the moment, still operate best with a 4-4-2 which would get the best out of another one of your players; Rooney. I would still take Gerrard over Walcott or SWP on the right wing though but playing him alongside Lampard or a holding midfielder in the center pair will just not cut it.

[Kenny]

oh hear we go again... before we start, i am a Liverpool fan.

Gerrard's best position is not the middle of the park, not as a holding/defensive/disciplined midfielder, not on the left, not on the right, no his best position is a free roaming one, like where he played for Liverpool last season. Free roaming role might mean placing him on the right on the tv screens graphics bit before a match, but in fact he won't be there, but gets to go where the action is. He aint disciplined enough for the central role, and its unfair on him to play him as the defensive of the 2 central midfielders, you just waste a player that way.

Yet Gerrard has been made to suffer by previous managers who think that shafting him from one position to another is the supposed way to get the best out of him. Quite frankly, i'm suprised Gerrard has put up with playing for England with the way managers think he can play different roles every international break.

But to be honest though, nothing would please me more then to see if Fabio Capello (who is doing a decent job, despite what certain football "experts" and journalists think, although their opinion of him has changed just as much as Gerrard has been put into different positions), would drop him, and make Gerrard retire from international football, that way, England's loss is Liverpool's gain and let the England national football side rot. I mean who wants to play for their country when you get mindless morons who support lower league clubs who don't get the chance to see big name players, and boo them whenever they can't beat a side who put 11 men behind the ball.

Anyhow, who else thinks this international break is annoying... roll on the Premiership and European Cup.

[jimmy]

For a start im welsh, although im a liverpool supporter.

I think if england are a goal down with 20 minutes left, youd want gerrard in your team, you only have to look at the classic examples, the champions league final in 05, fa cup final 06, he was instrumental in both, hes instramental in every game for liverpool, he drives the team forward, he chases back to make tackles, he is the best central midfielder in the world right now, there is nothing he cant do!

you dont see frank lampard chasing back at players, dont get me wrong hes a great player, but you get so much more from gerrard. the reason hes never really turned that liverpool form on the international stage is due to the way he is being used, When frank lampard is in the same team both of them stifle eachothers talent. gerrard doesnt make them charging runs forward like he does for liverpool because he isnt being told like he is for liverpool to go out and make things happen, so he is waiting for lampard.

i think if england played bSIC 4-4-2, GERRARD and barry in the centre, you'd see the best of steven gerrard and you'd have a better team as awhole

[Rina]

Hi Martin,

I posted some of this under the Emile Heskey Kingpin debate but want to revisit since my thoughts were actually about Gerrard.

It's interesting that I always read analysis regarding players' ability and positioning but not nearly enough on players' chemistry that's based on hierarchies and personality on the pitch. So much success or lack of it depends on how or even whether players recognize who are the leaders among them in any given team because this can absolutely affect the way they play with each other.

In club level, players more readily accept hierarchies. In Liverpool, Gerrard is top dog but in England, this role simply does not work for him. When playing for country, it is imperative that each player feels there is an equality among them, that no one is assuming the leadership mantle. There needs to be that underlying feeling. Spain won Euro2008 with this on their side. Although you had Torres, David Villa, Fabregas, Iniesta etc, Puyol at the back not to mention Casillas in nets, you never had a feeling that any of these players was claiming that role of leader, although in each of their clubs they surely would be. You could see there was a mutual feeling of respect, everyone in it together, no one above anyone else.

For all their skills, players like Joe Cole and Rooney do not expect others to defer to them. There is a mutual appreciation of what each is bringing to the table, and this is why they play well together. Lampard, playing under Mourinho in Chelsea, also has total democracy ingrained in him. And especially someone like Beckham who led by example and was almost too democratic when he was captain. I believe Capello recognizes this kind of evenness and lack of ego in Beckham which may be why he brought him back to the fold. Beckham is the biggest superstar among them yet even his critics will say he is free of ego and treats everyone in the same manner.

With England, it might be that guys like Michael Owen or Gerrard are just too used to their roles at club level. Owen the isolated striker waiting for service, Gerrard in the midfield telling everyone what to do. When I see Owen play, he seems very isolated from the rest, not just position-wise but in wavelength as well. He is a born poacher and will pounce on balls and score, but Capello is all about building up to the goal instead of a lucky ball into the space.

Capello has recognized that a happy, settled and confident Rooney is the key to England scoring more goals. For a striker, Rooney is quite unselfish, and in Man U he would almost be better deployed as an attacking mid supporting Berbatov and CRonaldo. He just does not do well as the last man up. But in England, with someone even more unselfish like Heskey playing above him, holding the ball, putting it into the space, all of a sudden Rooney takes it upon himself to score more. It's all to do with how certain players understand each other.

I think right now the main issue is not Owen (whom I believe Capello has already decided is not right for the kind of feeling he's trying to build in the team and has turned the page on him) but Gerrard. We've all played on a team with someone like him. A natural leader, skilled and passionate and aggressive, with the ability to will the team to win. But what happens if a team is made up of players who get on and one who assumes that role without the rest of the team giving it freely? The problem is not between Gerrard and Lampard, it's about Gerrard bringing his Liverpool mentality to his England teammates and this just not sitting well with the rest of them. I am reminded of Michael Ballack doing the same thing with his German teammates. He appointed himself the natural leader to the media but I'm sure in the dressing room some of his teammates felt differently and resented Ballack's self-importance.

And yet if Gerrard were to stifle his natural leadership skills and aggression, this can't be a good thing either. This is Capello's dilemna. I am not saying Gerrard is bossing everyone around but perhaps there is something in the way he conducts himself, is there something in his body language or instructions that undermines some of his teammates' confidence in themselves when they make the wrong move, something patronizing in his tone of voice - I really don't know. But I'm saying especially when playing for country and especially for England who has so many stars, it is crucial that there be only one on top, and that is the manager.

Capello loves Rooney because he recognizes him as a player who is not only an enormous talent but who reads the game well, anticipates, moves into space, works really hard, and more importantly - does not think he is bigger than the team. Capello is shunning players whom he feels are not fitting well into this spirit like Owen and Bentley, and rewarding others who are not just playing well but contributing to this team spirit while doing so (Heskey, Lampard and yes, Beckham, who first impressed Capello with his conduct in Real Madrid). But Capello recognizes that Gerrard is just too good a player to give up on so he keeps giving him chances. My hope is that something will click with Gerrard the way it did with Joe Cole under Mourinho. After that crucial game in Chelsea when Mourinho criticized Joe Cole for showboating after he had just scored 2 goals, something fundamentally changed in how Joe Cole saw he should be conducting himself. It was almost like a lightbulb moment for him. Perhaps Capello is hoping for something like this with Gerrard and how he plays for England.

[stuart]

To play with 3 upfront we need a better No.9 than Heskey. This leaves us with either a midfield diamond or a flat 4 in midfield. In either of these systems you only need one from Lamps and Stevie G.

[Bryan]

For 20 minutes we looked like a side with shape, then Gerrard went off on one of his manic displays, running all over the pitch, getting in everybodys' way, doing everyone elses job for them, even taking corners from the left? End result? Rooney, Lampard and Barry disappeared, Brown with gaps in front of him stayed back, and Walcott with little to no service (and what he had was with his back to the goal) could have gone off and watched the game from the stands.

In the second half he was clearly under instructions to keep to the plan, so he sulked for most of the 45 minutes. Anyway, that's how it seemed.

Mr Samuel is right, Gerrard is the enigma, and his absence when Lampard is fit is the answer.

[HUGH LONDON]

ROONEY or GERRARD? Spot on Lee. Perhaps the problem being identified is not one of Lampard or Gerrard but one of Gerrard or Rooney. Given present form and 2005 and 2006 England form Lampard appears a reliable shoe in for central midfield so then the options are i) accomodate a holding player and therefore also Gerrard and so push Rooney wide attack in 4-3-3 or ii) persevere with 4-4-2 play Rooney central and bench Gerrard. As Rafa/Houllier struggled to accomodate Gerrard centrally and Fergie struggled to accomodate Rooney centrally in 2005 and 2006 it is not a simple solution for Capello. Even now most of Rooneys best attacking play is done wide for Utd and on the break at pace in space - Not typical of international football. I disagree that Rooney must play centrally to be effective as mostly he runs wide to take defenders away and make space for others in big games for Utd if he is playing centrally. He has not been a big game scorer for Utd probably for that reason nor does he play off a centre forward for them (It didn't work with Van Nistelroy, Saha was crocked and Berbatov is not a typical no.9). Don't you think Fergie would have bought a true no.9 if that was the answer for Rooney. Fergies answer was a fluid formation of attacking midfield players covered by a holding midfielder. His recent England goals have not been as a result of a second striker as Defoes was on Saturday. The formation second half was effective because a poor opposition ran out of legs and England relaxed on their set piece lead. England must have flexibilty.Of course Rooney is more likely to score if he plays centrally but is the team more likely to score? To win a tournament it is Germany, Brazil, Spain, Argentina etc you have to beat. That is why you have to think about a system that accomodates the Rooney,Gerrard and Joe Coles of this world as well as the reliable Lampard if you are to contain and then break down class teams with a touch of genius.
Either way England must recognise that all formations must be possible.

[Alec]

Firstly, I'm a Manchester United fan, I want to get that out the way before anyone accuses me of being a bias Liverpool fan.

Steven Gerrard is a world class footballer, who with Rooney and Lampard, is the one of the best three players England posses. It is a blessing that he is English, and every other nation in world football would treasure him. He has single handedly dragged Liverpool to unimaginable wins on many an occasion. I remeber Alan Pardew saying before the F.A cup final 2006, for which Liverpool were favourites, "If Steven Gerrard was in my team, West Ham would probably be favourites." We all remember what happend later that day....

He and Lampard will never work together, to the best of their abilities, in the same team, unless we find an English Drogba or Torres, which isn't going to happen in the near future. Rooney must play off a striker to make it worthwhile him playing, so subsequently, it is likely we will play 4-4-2 with him in the team.

Lampard and Gerrard, in my opinion, must both start, especially against nations like Andorra and Kazakhstan, where playing a holding midfielder is a complete waste of time. Both Lamaprd and Gerrard are completely capable of picking the ball of their centre halves and spreading play, whilst the other gets forward. Barry, whom I rate highly, was a waste of a position on saturday, which showed when he was replaced and we scored five goals.

Against stronger nations, I accept Barry may be needed in a midfield 3, with Rooney probably having to make way out of his favourite position. But Gerrard must play! Imagine being on the other team, looking at the England team sheet and seeing Gerrard on the bench; It would be a tremendous lift to them.

The man who single handedly destroyed one of the best midfield trio's seen this decade, (Pirlo, Gattuso and Kaka) in an average team, (containing the likes of Dudek, Traore, Smicer, Cisse etc) deserves to start for England, and backed the English public and media.

[JOSH]

I think that Lampard, as many on here have agreed, is on top form and deserves to be first choice in an England midfield, he is durable and disciplined to whichever role Capello throws at him, on saturday he was the better out of him, Gerrard and Barry.

I think Gerrard is suffering at the moment because with two people who have almost identical playing styles, they can sometimes tread on each others feet, also i think he has problems restricting himself if he is told to stay as a holding player, this is a role that comes more fluently to the likes of Hargreaves and Carrick but obviously they are injured.

His passing was not to a good standard on saturday and that may also be down to him being uncomfortable with his placement.

So yeah, Steven Gerrard is a fantastic player, he deserves to be on the team for England, but he needs to deal with the issues he has, if Lampard can handle it, why can't he?

[Harry Boulton]

We need to get away from this pathetic idea that we have to play our best players in order to be successful. Gerrard is a very talented player but he's never truly turned it on for Engl;and. He lacks the positional discipline to excel in the same way Lampard does. Lampard is the more limited player, but he focuses his ability and skills in the right way and comes away with a more focused and effective game.

[Lee]

People miss the point;

At Chelsea, Lampard plays as part of a midfield 3, with only 1 holding midfielder.

At Liverpool, Gerrard generally plays as part of a midfield 3, with 2 holding midfielders.

If England play the former, Gerrard has to be given time to learn the role. Let's not crucify the guy.

I think the key point is that neither of the above systems really works when you throw Rooney into the equation.

The goal has to be flexibility. I would not want to line up 4-4-2 against Brazil with Lampard and Gerrard centrally paired. In a game like that I'd rather see Barry and Hargreaves/Carrick in there with Lampard OR Gerrard given the attacking berth.

This obsession of a 'first choice 11' is unique to England fans. Most Premier League club sides don't have one, why should the national side. Sometimes Gerrard plays, sometimes Lampard, sometimes both.

GET. OVER. IT.

[Nicholas]

Hugh in London...did you not notice we played 4-3-3 in the first half on Saturday and were dreadful.

This system leaves our most gifted player (not Stevie Me but Rooney) isolated out wide.

Rooney is at his most destructive playing off a frontman as 3 golas in 3 halves show.

We need to play 4-4-2 with the central 2 being Gerrard or Lampard plus one another(Hargreaves, Barry, Jenas in thgat order).

As others have pointed out Gerrard lacks positional discpline at the highest level. You cant afford to go "Roy of the Rovers" as Stevie Me tends to do.

Why did his club manager for week after week play Gerrard out wide? Because he couldnt trust him in the middle and if he went wandering from the left didnt leave his centre backs exposed. Its only now Masch sits that Gerrard has a more central role.

I dont think Fabio will afford him that luxury.

Keep Rooney happy and we may just have a chance.