Where Sepp Blatter was right, Lord Triesman the business advisor and why we love Peter Coates

3. Unlike some people, I don't believe Sepp Blatter is ALWAYS wrong. But his generic attack on foreign ownership - a screed filled with so much demagoguery and buzzwords it could have been copied from Sarah Palin - was obviously out of left field. I can't blast holes in his flawed arguments any better than Martin Samuel did here so I'll just add a "ditto" to his column. Yet lost in Blatter's inanities about foreigners was one very good point: the issue of debt and the need for a proper licencing system for clubs. For the good of the game (and the league and the fans and the players and just about anyone who gives a hoot) it's simply not a good idea to allow clubs to run up debts which are more than sixty, eighty or one-hundred and fifty per cent of turnover. It's just a very dangerous situation. A licensing system and stricter controls - where, say, if your debt levels are too high the owners have to either inject cash or come up with a credible plan to cut costs, one which may involve the forced sale of players - would bring an element of equity and, more importantly, safeguard clubs against financial meltdown. Neither Fifa nor Uefa can impose this from above. It's up to the individual leagues. And, since turkeys don't vote for Christmas, don't expect the Premier League to introduce anything like it anytime soon. But the Champions' League and Uefa Cup are a different matter. What if they made participation contingent on obtaining a licence certifying a club's financial rectitude?

2. Lord Triesman, the independent chairman of the FA, has also warned about the levels of debt incurred by Premier League clubs (thought to be in excess of £2.5 billion). The Premier League obviously laughed this off, pointing to the Premier League's revenue streams and projections of future growth. The implication is that maybe Lord Triesman isn't the best man to tell you how to run a business. And they may have a point. After all, he's a career politician and trade unionist, which rather makes you wonder how well he understands business (put it this way: I doubt that he'd get very far if he were a contestant on The Apprentice). And maybe his judgment isn't exactly what it could be: after all, he joined the Communist Party in 1970, fourteen years after Budapest and two years after the tanks rolled into Prague. Oh, and it took him until the winter of 1976, after his 33rd birthday, to realize that maybe it wasn't such a good idea.

1. Speaking of spending, the October 2008 issue of World Soccer has a neat list of the 30 highest spending clubs (in net terms) in the last transfer window. Eleven of the 30 clubs are English, but neither Chelsea nor Arsenal are among them. Indeed, just two of the top five are from the Premier League: Manchester City and Aston Villa (!). Two Serie A clubs - Inter and Fiorentina - are second and fourth, while Zenit St. Petersburg rank fifth. Sunderland are a surprising sixth, just ahead of Barcelona, the highest ranked Liga club. What is curious is that the highest ranked English club actually owned by an Englishman are Stoke, whose net spending of £19m places them 13th overall. Peter Coates, the man who founded Bet365 and who bankrolls Stoke, may keep a low profile, but at least he's putting his money where his mouth is.

PLAY MY GAME: It's the game everyone is talking about! And you too can be a part of it. This week, we look at Everton. How many of Everton's foreign players would get into a 23-man England squad?

Here's my take:

Tim Howard: Not as good as he looked last season, but still easily makes the cut, at least as a backup.
Joseph Yobo: A tough one. I like him a lot and would be tempted to include him.
Mikel Arteta: Not only would I have him, I'd find a way to get him a starting spot.
Tim Cahill: The only concern is this - with Gerrard and Lampard around, would you need a third attacking midfielder who gets into the opposition box? Maybe not.
Yakubu Aiyegbeni: A big, strong, powerful goalscorer. An obvious choice who would probably start.

What do you think? Would love to hear from Everton fans...

Comments

[Gabriele Marcotti]

1. Punit - I reckon you're a bit harsh, but thanks for the props anyway...
2. Martin - For the record, I think Gibson is a good owner who is something of a local philanthropist in the Jack Walker mould. I have no problem with him. But I agree, to praise him while lambasting Abramovich is silly. As for opinions and "having played the game", I think you know where I stand.
3. Amerigooner - You are wrong and misguided on so many levels I'm not even sure where to start. But, heck, it's not often I get to write about politics, so here we go.
I actually like the fact that Sarah Palin had the guts to take on the powers-that-be in her own party. I like the fact that she stands for old-school republican values, such as small government, balanced budgets and respect for the individual. Those are the very same values of William F. Buckley of Chuck Hagel of John McCain. But those are the values which were betrayed by the unholy alliance between the Neocons and the Christian Right. And it's sad that now the party is beholden to these two very misguided schools of thought.
I don't have an issue with her per se, I just don't see how she's ready for the second highest office in the land. And I've been very disappointed with her public appearances which generally consist of a string of buzzwords and talking points and not much else. Much like Blatter. That's what I was criticizing. As for Palin herself, heck, I'd take her over Dubya, Cheney, Rumsfeld and the rest of the crew any day of the week.
4. Huw - Thanks for that. From what I read, there was a lot of debate within the Communist Party throughout the early 1970s about whether to be pro-Soviet or whether to be "Euro-Communists" along the lines of Gramsci. Either way, I'm not sure somebody who championed and embraced that kind of system is necessarily the best person to judge the financial requirements of football clubs in a free market system.
5. Aidan - Giovinco is one to watch, though, obviously, his size is a concern. I'm not sure he offers what Italy lacked (Italy's problem wasn't a lack of skill, IMHO, it was a lack of execution). I just hope he gets the necessary playing time at Juve this year.

[Aidan]

If Louis Saha were able to complete a number of consecutive matches without breaking down, he'd be worth considering.

Oh and Gab, is Sebastian Giovinco likely to receive a call-up for the Italian national side anytime soon? He might be tiny but he's quick and skilful and offers something Italy have lacked - certainly in the Euros.

[Huw]

Just an aside: the Communist Party of Great Britain, which I believe is that to which Triesman belonged, was not pro-Soviet. It was more akin to what became the "soft-left" of the Labour Party.

[Amerigooner]

What's with the snarky attitude of all you English journalists about Sarah Palin? Don't like intelligent, attractive, principled women? So deep in the throws of Euro-socialism that you can't even stand an opposing viewpoint? I should have suspected that the English media was as hopelessly leftist as the American press.

Oh, and you're wrong about Blatter too. He's a total prat. But of course you would agree with him, what he's proposing is just another form of socialism which you obviously love so much.

[martin]

Gab, i apolagise because im posting a third time but i love a debate. On Talksport, Durham and Wright made a show based on something that was entirely flawed. They praised the Middlesborough chairman Mr Gibson from high heaven. How, under his regeime, they had a great youth acadamy, English manager and backroom staff. Basicly how great was to have an English chairman in charge of an English team. They then slated Man City and Chelsea because they were dependent on one man / oranisation who could run out on any time and leave their club in crippling debt. My point is, why do the English [ racists ] assume that itll be the foreigners who run away first? During the whole 3 hours of drivetime, not one caller asked Durham, if Gibson was so great, why is Middlesborough 80m in debt? statisticly, in relation to Chelsea/ City, is that not a worse scenario?

People lambast foreign ownership, but what about, when it was about a shilling each to watch a game, they had 80,000 odd to watch a game? What did they spend the surplus on? what about the English owned clubs in the lower devisions who suffered financial difficulty?

Foreign ownership only came into the English game in the last 6 odd years, yet were supposed to blame them for the years of neglect of the lower league teams?, [ ps. I remember Claridge[ on 5 live ] saying you couldnt judge players performances because you never played at that level.....can i please ask you, if thats the case, can he never give his opinion on Champs Lg matches because he never played at that level? or how he should keep his English national team opinions to himself, because as a journy man striker, his opinion is as valid as mine [ since he has the same amount of caps as me] [ i assume he has none ] its a pet hate of mine, and its a generalistion that doesnt belong in this day and age.

[Punit]

Sepp should recognise that we don't like that kind of talk around here. Same goes for that Michelle Platty-hair. Bloody Johnny Foreigners and their foreign ways. Just jealous.

And that's about the level of most critical debate in the press.

Nice to see that the blog commentators have a rather more considered opinion. Perhaps the "sports writers" for the Sun, Mirror, Mail etc. should just read the posts here rather than going to all the trouble of making up their own BS.

[Gabriele Marcotti]

1. Ola - Interesting take on Pienaar.
2. Craig - I think we're largely in agreement. The biggest threat to United is if they fail to meet their profit targets and thus service their debt. What happens if United finish fourth, face, say AC Milan (with the new Champions League format it could happen) and get knocked out in the qualifying round? There's an instant £30m plus shortfall in profits. And that's bound to have an effect.
The licensing system is UEFA's only weapon here. They can't madate what the Premier League does. What they can do is this: for clubs that already have huge debts because of leveraged buy-outs (like United) they can put them on a strict plan to reduce that debt over time (whether by the owners injecting money or by reducing spending) and, at the same time, bar the kind of takeovers that United and Liverpool were subjected to. I think that make sense.
A salary cap is a foolish and unrealistic idea (a luxury tax makes far more sense).
As for Lazio, well, they did face bankruptcy because they couldn't meet the Italian FA's licensing system (and their debt, even as a ratio to turnover, was less than United's). They worked out a payment plan with their creditors and stuck to it and have been reducing their debt year on year. But it's not really fair to bring that up, that was before Platini and his crew got involved.
3. Martin - The issues you raise are complex. You obviously can't just order United to cut their debt overnight or be banned, because when the Glazers took over the club and accrued the debt it was entirely legal for them to do so.
What you can do is ensure this kind of thing does not happen again and, at the same time, tell United to come up with a rational and strict plan to reduce the debt over time, or face exclusion. To me that seems rational or fair.
As for the accounting practices, you're absolutely right, we need a level playing field. Counting the players as individual assets is a short-term boon but a long-term headache. What UEFA ought to do is develop a standard accounting practice that could meet the needs of all UEFA member nations and their clubs.

[martin]

Yes Gab, that kind of debt might be worse, but its entirely legal. If FIFA were to ban Utd for, in effect, doing nothing wrong, Utd would have every right to take it to court. FIFA wouldnt have a leg to stand on. Again, who are FIFA to change the rules of business? What powers do they have? This is as impossible as a new foreigner rule. It would take an agreement between all clubs to agree and not to challenge it [ the reason why its still implemented in Germany and France ] if Bayern were to suddenly challenge it, it would fall apart. But Bayern don't want to be seen putting the future of German football at risk, so theyre pressured not to.a final point here as well.....In Spain and Italy, in accountancy terms, players are logged as individual assests, so in principal, Real could run a debt of 500M euros, log in their players values individually as 100m and not be in debt. [im not sure that example is correct but the theory certainly is]

[Craig]

Can we get one thing straight? There's a big difference between the debt at Manchester United and the debt at Chelsea yet it seems to be grouped together by the media/Lord Triesman/Sepp Blatter/anyone else who feels like shouting their mouth off at any one point. There seems to be a misconception that Manchester United have got where they are now by running up massive debts. This is a misnomer; United have won the previous two League titles and the Champions League IN SPITE of the debts. The only debts United have were leveraged onto the club, nay, onto Red Football, the club's holding company when the Glazers took over. Net spending has decreased since they took over:

Notable transfers since Glazer took control in May 2005:

2005-06 season:
In
Vidic £7m
Evra £5.5m
Park £4m
Foster £1m
Van der Saar £free?
Total: £17.5

Out
Neville £3.5m
Kleberson £2.5m
Total: £6m

Note that around 25 players went on loan this season too, i.e. off the wage bill at least in part
Net spend: £11.5m

2006-07 season:
In
Carrick £14m (£18m)

Out
van Nistelrooy £10m

Again, over 25 players left the club on loan

Net spend: £4m (rising to £8m potentially)

2007-08 season:
In
Nani £7m (£14m)
Anderson £8m (£21m)
Hargreaves £17m
Tevez £5m (£30m)

Note that the inital outlay for Nani and Anderson is reported to be around £15m rising to £35m depending on success/appearances. Carlos Tevez arrived on loan with a loan fee payable. A transfer fee is yet to be paid but is believed to be agreed already, increasing the total fee to around £30m.

Out
Heinze £8m
Smith £6m
Richardson £6m
Rossi £7m
Total £27m

Net spending: £10m, potentially rising to £55m

2008-09 season:

In
Berbatov £31m

Out
Saha £?
Silvestre £?
Pique £8m
Total: £10m (for the sake of giving a figure I have prudently estimated the income from the sale of Saha and Silvestre at £2m)

Notably two senior players wiped off the wage bill to accomodate Berbatov's wages.

Net spend £21m

Assuming that Tevez, Nani, Anderson and Carrick are all paid for in full, including all (unlikely) add-ons, this is a net spend of around £24m a season since the Glazers took control, hardly a dramatic outlay considering the following:

1. In the previous two seasons United have won the Premiership twice, reached the Champions League semi finals once and won it on another occasion
2. Turnover is around £250m
3. The capacity of Old Trafford has increased by 8000 since
4. Ticket prices had increased by an average of 12% per season
5. The squad is smaller and many players are loaned out each season, resulting in a lower wage bill

In the years prior to this, net spending was significantly higher yet the club consistently notched up record profits with still reasonable ticket prices. The only thing that has changed since the Glazer takeover is that United are currently servicing a £62m interest repayment each year which is money that could potentially be going back into the club if the Glazers had never taken over. All they've done is squeeze every last penny out and streamline the business side, making the fans pay for the dubious privilige of having them in charge. When they took over United were the richest club in the world; over night they have become the poorest club in the world. Thankfully, they have the greatest manager of his generation presiding over the club so the effects have not been as harmful as they could have been, but long term the club is in a rather delicate situation to say the least.

My take (although I'd probably think differently if I were a City or Chelsea fan) is that a club should be self sufficient, i.e. not running at a loss a la Chelsea. I don't see a problem with clubs like Manchester United or Barcelona being able to buy the best players as they're the biggest clubs. As far wages are concerned, I don't believe in a wage cap as such, but clubs need to be sensible to ensure that they don't get into a Leeds United type scenario. I'd therefore propose that clubs should only be allowed to spend below a certain percentage of their turnover on wages, e.g. 50%. This would stop situations like have happened at West Ham and Newcastle, where average players are commanding salaries which until very recently were the sole preserve of the very, very elite players. Anyone can see that Lucas Neill and Keiron Dyer are not worth £80,000 per week.

Now what I don't get is why it would be deemed appropriate to kick United out of Europe; they haven't cheated, if anything they've had a massive hinderance, making the achievement of winning the Champions Leauge all the more impressive. Banning them from Europe would only punish the fans, the fans who are basically already paying someone else's mortgage and who have been failed by the system in even letting these crooks take over.

One final thing; I don't remember there being much uproar about Lazio's massive debts, or Real Madrid's for that matter. Racist forces at work within UEFA/FIFA? Surely not...

[Ola]

I agree with most of the choices

Arteta would definitely get into the starting eleven- criminally underated- even though hes strictly speaking an attacking midfilelder(then again so 's Joe Cole) he is better than all of England's wide options.

Yobo would get in to the squad if we are talking about the current squad selection because he is a better player than Lescott and at least Upson's equal but he woudnt get past King and woodgate who would be my ideal central defensive reserves if they were fit.

Tim Howard would be in with a shout for a starting place. Only Chris Kirkland is a better English keeper and he seems too injury prone to warrant selection for Capello.

Yakubu would probably go into the starting lineup in place of Heskey as he can both hold up play and score goals.

I wouldnt pick Cahill. Yes - he scores goals but as an attacking midfilelder he doesnt offer enough creatively to warrant a place over any of Gerrard,Lampard,Carrrick,Barry or Jenas

Also how about Pienaar? Skilful, creative and versatile. I think he could offer something as a reserve for Joe Cole. Just a thought...

[Gabriele Marcotti]

1. Colsyd - Arteta's problem is twofold: there is a certain suspicion towards guys who play abroad, especially if they haven't made the grade first in Spain and Spain are simply loaded with talent in midfield.
2. David - I'm with you on Carsley (or, at least, the lack of a Carsley-type). As for a licence like in the Bundesliga, yes, I think it would be very beneficial, provided it was done with a bit of common sense. Not all debt is the same. For example, Arsenal's debt was incurred to build something tangible (the stadium), so it's a bit like a mortgage. United's debt, as you know, is wholly different.
3. Richard - UEFA do have licencing requirements, but, right now, they're very lax and only in extreme circumstances would you be denied one. Though Rangers did come close.
4. PG - Anichebe is one to watch, definitely.
5. Martin - Yes, there are different kinds of debt (as I explained above) but I don't see how you can conclude that whenever a club gets taken over, there is automatically a lot of debt that is generated. It depends how this is done, if it's a leveraged buy-out and somebody borrows to buy a club and then dumps it on the club (as was the case at United), there will be debt. But that's precisely why, in my opinion, this should not be allowed. It puts United at great risk. United may not have spent its way into debt, but, if anything, this debt is potentially far worse.
6. Kay - I can't speak to Ramos' leadership skills since I'm not in the dressing room. But I agree with you, it would be good if he were more visible, even if his English is limited. He's not doing himself any favours, put it that way.
7. Ken - Reliability, I guess, is something you can work on. But I take on board what you say about Yobo.
8. Mark - I'm with you on Howard. As for Cahill, the question is this; I can only see a place for him if Gerrard and Lampard both start. But if England play with just one attacking central midfielder, surely you wouldn't need two guys to back him up, would you?

[Carl]

Whislt agree about debts etc, where was FIFA and UEFAs concern when Real Madrid were stock pilling players despite a debt comparable with some of the figures which cause them such concern when connected to an English club.

I am sure Platini enjoyed his wages at Juve which no doubt were higher than what he was on in France, but I guess thats ok

[Mark]

Yeah, Yakubu would go straight in alongside Rooney in my opinion. Although I think Arteta is a quality player I am not sure how he could be accomodated in the first team if everyone was fit, he would definitely be in the squad however. For me Howard is a more reliable and consistent goalkeeper than James or anyone esle England has to offer so he would also go straight into the starting line-up. As you said, Cahill is a good player, would make a solid back-up for Gerrard and Lampard, but would certainly not go into the team ahead of either of them.

[Ken Moore]

Yobo? I'm an Everton man through and through.....but.....NO!! He's pretty skillful and tough, but UNRELIABLE!!
Anichebe might be in with a shout, although maybe not quite yet.

[kay]

What is your view on Juande Ramos's leadership skills? I imagine there are some people who think Gus Poyet is the manager of Spurs. Scolari's English isn't great, but he shows his face and the fans warm to him. Ditto Claudio Ranieri's English, never great, but even speaking with a translator in tow allowed fans to build a relationship with him and understand his position. Hence he was very popular despite winning nothing in 4 years. Ramos may get the distinction of being as anonymous when he leaves as when he arrived. I bet a coach wouldn't get away with such public dodging of responsibilty in his native land.

[martin]

Imo, the debt test clubs have to pass has too many flaws. The point i never see discussed is, contrary to scare mongerers and sensationalism, the debt in England is completly different. Clubs are not spending themselves into debt [ despite what Wenger and his fanboys think ] the debt is incurred when theyre taken over.So all this salary cap / strict budget ideas wouldnt change a thing. The thing is, the level of debt after completion is normal in business, it is in no way different to any other industry. What FIFA plan to do is to stop companys being legally taken over, which is illegal in itself. What happens if, say, Hull made the Champions League, passed the debt test, but half way through the season they are bought in a hostile takeover. Are they kicked out? What could the Hull the board do to stop it? Its all legal and above board. legally there are no rules of business that are breached, so for FIFA to ban them for a legal transaction would be a lawyers dream, It would never hold up in court.

[PG]

Hmmm.. I like Victor Anichebe and thought he was very effective coming off the bench last year. Mikel Arteta is very good.. shame he is spanish and behind the pecking order of Xavi, Iniesta and Fabregas. Yakubu is very powerful - think Emile Heskey with better control. Yup those would be my 3. Am no Everton fan, but I like the fact that they do consisitently punch above their weight ( speaking purely in monetary terms not history)

[richard dow]

Has there not been a previous attempt at this? I remember Rangers getting this licence. It was associated with their financial viability or suchlike. I cant remember exactly maybe someone can help.

[David]

1. About the issue of mass club debt, am i right in thinking that in Germany all clubs have to break even over a two year period. Do you think that Fifa should introduce this system through out the world to stop football ending up like the world banking sector, and with the credit crunch the price of serving that debt is only going to increase and you wonder what the owners are going to do if they cannot afford to service te debt will they abbandon the clubs an let them go bankrupt. In Germany this can not happen which protects clubs from going bankrupt.

2. I would have three foreign Everton players in the England squad and that would be Howard, Arteta and Yakubu. I have a possible reason why Everton are strugling defensively, and it is due to the loss of Lee Carsley. Now Carsley was no great player but he did give the midfield steel and give protectionto the back four. With out this protection the defense are a lot more vulnerable, hence the poor defensive record.

[ColSyd]

As an ex-pat Evertonian stuck in Sydney, I'm only too happy to indulge in a bit of mindless pondering about the quality of our 'aliens'. It beats watching rugby league, or the abomination of a game they have the nerve to call a code of football, Australian Rules. Having said that, the grand final between Geelong and Hawthorn was a belter. Go the Hawks! I find myself quite frequently engaged in a debate on 'what is the best code of football'. In my view, it's a no-brainer: proper football, union, league - and then Aussie Rules, by a distance. Any code of football without an offside rule has got to be off the pace. Not too sure where Gaelic footy fits in. At least the ball is round. Maybe others have a view.

Some might say it also beats watching Everton for real. We've have an easy opening set of games - and are leaking goals and points. 1 point out of 4 home games is relegation form. Perhaps Moyes was a bit quick to let Lee Carsley go on a free in the Summer - most teams work better with a stumpy spoiler with no aspirations to get past the half way line in the mix. Pretty worrying stuff, all round. Back to your game, Yobo was on the bench v. Newcastle - with Lescott and Jagielka starting. Brings to mind John Lennon's famous quip in response to a question to Ringo about 'what is it like to be the best drummer in the world...? 'He's not even the best drummer in the Beatles', fired back Lennon. I don't think Yobo would make the cut with England, but he should be starting for us every week. Arteta is a dead cert. Do you have any idea why he can't get a sniff of the Spain squad. Something to do with the disconcertingly neat hair? Cahill, the Yak, Howard - I agree with you.