Debate: Are Stoke the least popular top-flight team since Wimbledon?

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Oliver Kay

A sense of schadenfreude accompanies every FA Cup third-round defeat for a top-flight team by lower-division opposition and, while Stoke City’s loss away to Hartlepool United might not have constituted a giant killing in a literal sense, it was certainly a popular result in some quarters.

Stoke, you see, have a popularity problem. Their brand of football — a heavy reliance on Rory Delap’s throw-ins, below, a combative approach that has earned opprobrium from Arsène Wenger and even led to two of their players fighting among themselves in last month’s defeat by West Ham United — is not one to endear them to the neutral. Certainly the establishment will shed no tears for Tony Pulis and his players if embarrassment in the FA Cup is followed at the end of the season by relegation from the Barclays Premier League.

To defend Stoke is to be seen to laud the virtues of negativity, attrition and, at times, aggression in a sport that is, after all, meant to be a form of entertainment, but are they really so deplorable as to be likened to the Wimbledon “Crazy Gang” of the late Eighties and early Nineties? For all Wenger’s protestations after Arsenal’s defeat at the Britannia Stadium, they are not a team of thugs, just an honest bunch of players trying to make the most of their limited abilities in a league where they would perish if left to get by on technique alone. If Pulis’s job is to keep his team in the Premier League, is the manager not, while staying just the right side of the law, giving his team the best possible chance?

Debate: Are Stoke the least popular top-flight team since Wimbledon? Have your say in the comment field below.

Comments

[Tommy Campbell]

I think people hate Chelsea more than any other team in the Prem.

[Fat Shirley Temple]

The hacks who dream up the 'are Stoke the worst/most hate side in the Gravy Train since Wimbledon' probably are the same hacks who used to argue that West Ham and Forest were too good to go down. Well, we at Wimbledon helped to prove them wrong on the latter point, and those who don't eat prawn sandwiches in a library are probably all delighted at how Stoke are doing. G'wan Stoke!

[paul harp]

Who's that idiot talking about Stoke taking feigning injuries and diving to a new level. I am a Stoke fan of many years and don't particularly enjoy their style of football but, at the same time, I can understand that this season is all about survival in the Premier League. What cannot be levelled at us is that we are a team of cheats. For cheating look at the 'stars' of the game i.e. Ronaldo, Gerard, Rooney.

[Pottercol]

Ok, we Stokies are used to being picked on by ill informed hacks from down south. Average gate this season 27,000 with 24,500 passionate home fans. Wouldn't "better" clubs like Bolton, Portsmouth, Wigan, etc. like crowds like that?

[Gavin Weedon]

Wimbledon 1991, Stoke 2008...shouldnt we be looking beyond the professional aspirations of these teams, ie win at all costs, and consider their impact beyond the elite game? I personally have played at a range of levels of football, never professionally, and have turned to other sports for leisure because when I turn up to play on a Sunday, other players invariably want to fight, cheat, abuse the referee and members of BOTH teams, rarely interested in getting the ball down and enjoying the game, with a manager holding the audacity to say that is a 'tactic' he is employing. Stoke need to stay up, its hard to blame them as they are professionals, but next time you decide to support a Wimbledon or Stoke, think of the effect encouragement of this type could have on your childrens participation and enjoyment of football.

[Chardonnay88]

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. Another pointless press article trying to encourage a dislike for the smaller side.
Maybe we should just hope for a league of 8 teams with Man U, Liverpool, Celski and Arsenal fielding an 'A' and 'B' side?
To be honest, I enjoyed 'my' team being disliked by the press and opposition in the 80s and 90s. I imagine Stoke fans are the same today. Both teams play(ed) within the rules, otherwise they'd not finish matches due to excessive red cards. So what is the press's problem?
One of the best things about the whole English football league is that any team can get success whatever style of football they play, and however many fans they have (or do not have). One of the worst things is the number of 'fans' who think that a match can only be entertaining or likeable if it includes 5 goals [none scored from long throws or corners] and is played in front of a minimum of 30,000 fans.

[Andrew Thomas]

I agree with Mike above. Rory Delap's aggressive throw-ins against Arsenal who were completely unable to cope was one of the most exhilarating things I have seen this season.

[david .]

Now an Australian resident and a Stoke supporter for over 50 years I am enjoying a warm glow about their returning to the top football league.With limited resources the supporters have doubled and time and patience will reward everyone.Trying to play the same game as our "big brothers"will only result in our being sent back down.

[Ally]

There's all this talk about Stoke upsetting the Premiership, how they're doing such a fine job and how Delap's throw-ins are a masterpiece in undefendable football.

I just don't agree, Stoke are in one of the relegation spots for a reason - they are not good enough, & I can't see them escaping. Only a few more months of their cheating antics left, - let's enjoy it while it lasts...

[Colin Brightwell]

Steve, Fulham has a discerning following and the truth of the matter is that not many fancied spending good money going to watch Fulham play a team whose only hope of winning is to try and muscle the opposition into submission...and by choosing those words, believe me I'm being polite. From what I saw on TV, their collective judgement was more than vindicated.
Roy Hodgson took over a poor team, performed a miracle by saving them from almost certain relegation and is significantly exceeding expectations this season ... by playing cultured, pass and move football.
Stoke are a championship team at best and their almost certain relegation will be welcomed by all who want to watch football as it should be played. Stanley Matthews would be mortified if he knew the depths to which this club has plunged in its desperate effort to survive in the Premiership.

I notice the Stoke supporters are very selective in their support of Stoke's tactics.There is nothing wrong in physical football long throw ins etc, it is the diving, time wasting and feigning of injuries, which all teams practice
to some degree but Stoke take it to a whole new level.

[Steve Andrews]

Wimbledon did so much good for football - they gave hope to every team in the lower leagues that hard work and ambition can achieve great things. They didn't have the financial strength of the bigger clubs in the same way that Stoke and others don't have today, but they achieved far more than even they expected - an FA Cup win, 14 years in the top division, and even leading that division at one point.

Football isn't just about the beautiful game - it's a game that anyone can play and diversity of styles and approaches is what makes it great to watch.

I miss Wimbledon! The little guys done good!

[Greg]

Stoke routinely post the worst possession and passing statistics after Premiership games. Their possession stats are often under 30 per cent. In their games against Man Utd this season they recorded around 25 per cent possession. Anyone unfamiliar with the Premiership would be entitled to ask two questions: first, does Tony Pulis actually field a team most weeks, and if he does, what sport are they playing? Nobody disputes the right of any team to do what they can - within the rules - to retain their Prem status. But part of the problem is Stoke push the rules until they very nearly break. Listen to West Ham fans complain about timewasting in their recent game. And some of their fans were described by the Guardian in November as 'witless' and 'moronic'. Potters fans will no doubt claim 'nobody likes us, we don't care'. Just as well, because nobody does.

[Gareth]

Can i just say as a Wigan fan, we play some of the best football in the Premiership. Anyone who thinks we play long ball either lives on a different planet or hasn't seen much of us in the past two seasons. I hate the Southern assumption that just because we're little Wigan, we must play long ball.

All the clubs in the premiership that are at the slightest risk of being relegated, currently all bar about the top 7, want the teams that come up to flop big time. When a team comes up with the physical attitude that Stoke have then it scares them. Many of these teams have supporters in the media and it is these people that use psychology to undermine the new teams. This article is a perfect illustration.

[MysticalDescent]

What I believe Stoke do is offer something different to the Premier League. The Premier League has become a stagnant place, where the majority of teams spend vast amounts of money to attain mediocrity while playing a dull, stereotyped defensive passing game. This is why people are beginning to find games such as (and no offence intended here) Middlesbrough vs Fulham to be unattractive viewing. The football is sterile, the players are precious and the grounds are half empty.

I enjoy seeing a team willing to stand up and fight, who play hard but fair (admittedly Shawcross' tackle on Adebayor was a stupid one) and who don't throw themselves around on the floor. I love the way that Stoke break up this awful, dull style employed by most Premiership teams. I love that the atmosphere at the Britannia puts the rest of the Premiership to shame. It took blatant cheating on the part of Mr Chris Foy for Manchester United to beat Stoke on Boxing Day, the weak moaners like Ronaldo and Rooney simply could not stand a team standing up to them and tackling them. They like teams who sit back and let them score while playing dull tippy-tappy in their own half.

Stoke are an example for the rest of the league.

[scfccoffey]

NO1 Likes us We Dont careee (8)

[Nemo]

After reading the comments, it seems clear that most people are happy that Stoke are doing well. Where did this myth arise that football fans want to see nothing but Arsenalesque football? From the media of course. I saw Stoke play against my team, Bolton, on the first day of the season. They didn't get a result but their fans were amazing and a real credit to the club. Bolton v Stoke in the Premier League, give me that over a Chelsea v Liverpool bore draw any time. Good luck to Stoke, a proper club with proper fans, and a certain nobility about them.

[Steve (Stone Stokie)]

Sir.Stanley Matthews, Sir.Geoff Hurst, Neil Franklin, Alan Hudson, Gordon Banks, Peter Shilton, Jimmy Greenhoff,Dennis Smith etc etc. Just a few of the superb footballers who have played for Stoke.
I have followed Stoke since 1963 (as an 8 year old) and seen them beat Leeds, Liverpool, Manchester Utd and Arsenal and many others with Stoke often being the favourites. At our peak in the Tony Waddington era (1965-75) we were one of the most attractive footballing teams in the country. We could and did beat the best but would slip up regularly against perceived lesser opponents.
Eventually our inconsistency condemned us to 23 years out of the top division (we have been in the top flight for well over 50 years)and to some pretty poor footballing fare over the ensuing years.
We get promoted in 2008 and have one ambition and that is not to get relegated. We are not a wealthy club; we are a medium sized connurbation of say 350,000 people that is rapidly de industriallising (Wedgwood latest casualty)and have one of the lowest incomes per head per annum. But Potteries folk are friendly and fiercely loyal to the area. Hence, when we play at home the Britannia Stadium has more atmosphere then Anfield and Old Trafford put together. Some of our wins been superb (Aston Villa and Arsenal)whilst one of our defeats (3-2 to Everton) should have been a draw and again was a great match -likewise the very narrow defeat to Man Utd on Boxing Day. Best team seen so far is Chelsea - streets ahead of Stoke - but then again my car is probably better than most as it cost more!
If Stoke survive and it is a big if given some unusual team selections / tactics at times, then they have a chance to become an attractive mid ranking side. Home gates are always at capacity (or near) of 28,000 and thousands go to away matches. Fulham's away support of a few hundred was embarrassing for them: after all London is a big city!
In summary, we may / may not survive but one thing is for sure and that is we are enjoying the ride.

[Marco Bonfiglio]

Mick, sorry. The Hammers aren't the most unpopular side in the Prem. Most pitied, perhaps, since your billionaire from a cold climate looks like being the first to bite the snow. But nobody I know gives a rat's posterior about the West Ham/Sheffield U imbroglio, because the latter were managed by Neil Warnock.

[Beagriestache]

A surprising amount of sense written above. The answer to the question depends entirely on how you define popularity.
I'm sure nobody is less popular than Man Utd with real football fans (i.e not gloryhunters) as a result of their Utd > England banners, diving cheats who seem immune from bookings or sendings off and a whining manager who seems to think the FA is conspiring against them with the fixture list. Does he not remember how often Man U kicked off before Chelsea last season. Weren't Tranmere prevented from doing just that every Friday because it gave them an advantage?!
No, Man U will always top the real unpopularity poll but you won't see that written anywhere because journos crave their access to the Theatre of Silence so much.
If you want a more deserving club to dislike than Stoke, I'd choose Wigan - no history, no fans, entirely through cash have they achieved mid-table mediocrity and in fifteen years when Dave Whelan's no longer with us, will no doubt be in Division Four being watched by 3000 on a good day. The only team I've ever seen on Match of the Day where the fans were able to move to dry seats in their hundreds when it started raining. Pathetic.

[Angela Smith]

I wonder how many of the people upset by Stoke's "direct style" of play would swap their teams position for ours? We have made it back to the top flight after many years in the "wilderness" and as a fan, I am going to love every point that we get by all means available to us. If we go down, we will be back, but we will always have a core of real fans who support the club whatver and maybe that is what some armchair fans cant quite understand. We are proud of our club, we would like to be able to afford great players, but we will support those we have when they give 100% for the club.

[Mick]

Why do some commentors claiming that the press have a vendetta against Stoke (which is at least an arguable point) then follow it by saying the the media hate the idea of anyone beating a Big Four side? Clearly they do not, otherwise they would have nothing to write about besides when one of the laughably overhyped "Grand Slam Sundays" occur.

I'm sure the press loved it when Stoke beat Arsenal because it was a great story made even better by the way Wenger reacted and the war of words that dragged on the following week. The criticism Wenger and Arsenal have received in the press from this point onwards (and if you don't believe it read The Times match report against Plymouth - you would never guess they actually won from reading the write-up!) prove that the press don't necessarilly want the Big Four to do brilliantly, even if those four clubs get the lion's share of press coverage.

After all if Arsenal were out of the title race but clear of the rest of the pack in fourth, where would the story lie? The fact Aston Villa are above them is brilliant for sports journalists. You only need to see the favourable coverage that Aston Villa, a team who have spent heavily and lucked out on numerous occasions this season, have received for causing the big clubs trouble to see that there is no will in the press for teams like Arsenal to steamroll Stoke, as I see my fellow Hammer Dave O has just mentioned.

As for my earlier post, while I enjoyed our win over Stoke immensely witnessing their ridiculous time-wasting antic, I agree with the point made that I would much rather see teams with good support like their own in the top-flight than ones that have crap fanbases and buy success. However, I am still shocked by how much time-wasting and injury feigning took place when we played Stoke last month because until then I had no axe to grind.

Anyway, I thought we were the most unpopular Premier League club ever for once having one player who single-handedly relegated Sheffield United?

[Dave O]

I have not seen any more of Stoke than what has been shown on match of the day, and I don't have any strong feelings agaist them. However, I know a lot of West Ham season ticket holders who came back from our victory over them in December proclaiming Stoke are one of the worst footballing sides they had ever had the misfortune to welcome to the Boleyn. The negative tactics that angered people so much include timewasting (for goal kicks, throw-ins and feigned injuries), constant fouling, attempting to break up the flow of game and playing for throw-ins.

However, it would take at least several seasons of this sort of behavious before they reach the dizzying heights of unpopularity that Wimbledon managed to achieve.

I am amused to read comments from the Stoke fans claiming a media bias. Journalists are not jealous of Stoke, and do not wish to only see success amongst the footballing aristocracy. They watch football games as part of their job, and presumably after each Stoke game wonder who they can call and ask for that 90 minutes of their lives back.

[JR Stoke]

More media Stoke bashing.
I thought this would have wore off by now.
The media may not like us, but as a Stokie with many friends that are fans of other clubs, even ones we've drawn against or beaten like Liverpool, Arsenal, Villa not one dislikes us. Most admire us for putting up a scrap. I've even had many positive comments from Vale fans!!!!!!!!!!
When we can afford the cash hopefully from another season in the Prem then better signings will come. I just hope that the players carry playing with passion. Who cares what everyone thinks, it's what Stoke fans think that count!
Stoke and Proud!!!!