Smackdown in Las Vegas

Hillary Clinton righted the ship, staunched the haemorrhaging, pulled out of the nosedive tonight in the latest Democratic debate. Or, since we're in Vegas, she dealt herself a new hand and took home the pot.

The fisticuffs at the start - by far the sharpest exchange of the presidential election so far, in either party - didn't hurt her too much.  And when that was over, in an otherwise predictable evening, Barack Obama made a significant error that Hillary's team will seize on, while John Edwards seemed to do himself some harm by being just too aggressive and confrontational.

Obama's worst moment was the utterly inexplicable failure to give a straight answer to the now infamous drivers' licence question - which, oddly but perhaps significantly, is becoming a kind of key to the 2008 election.  It was barely believable that after everything that has happened in the last two weeks - Hillary's straddling answer in the Philadelphia debate on whether illegal immigrants should be given licences, her subsequent clumsy attempts to correct the record, and yesterday's climbdown by Eliot Spitzer, the New York governor, who started the whole thing - that Obama had to be pressed four times by Wolf Blitzer before he said he supported giving them licences. And even then he qualified it by saying "Yes, but..."

Interestingly I think this should damage Obama precisely because it reveals exactly the flaw he has been successfully pinning on Hillary these last few weeks - that she is desperately trying to have it both ways on vital policy issues.

Edwards' problems was that he just started to sound unpleasant and captious with his constant open warfare tactics against the frontrunner.  The most telling moment for him came when he was actually booed by the audience as he launched some new attack against Hillary - a development that may suggest Democrats don't want too much more of this escalating unpleasantness, and he may do himself more damage than he does to his opponents if he keeps it up.

Hillary seemed mostly in command. She got off to a terrible start with a lame joke about how she was wearing an "asbestos suit", to protect her from the flamethrowers. Incidentally, I'm no fashion guru but if I were her I wouldn't make any references to her couture because from where I was sitting it did look as though it might have been made of asbestos. Obama scored one hit on her. She attacked him for his proposal to lift the income ceiling on Social Security contributions, saying it would hurt the middle class. But Obama pointed out that in fact it was only the top 6 per cent of earners who would pay more - hardly the middle class.

Butt for most of the evening it was back to the pattern of the earlier debates. She sounded authoritative and convincing, especially on foregn policy. In the spin room afterwards, her people were noticeably more upbeat than either Obama's or Edwards's.

Some other thoughts:

The most depressing aspect was that the general posture of the participants represented a collective cringe to the tenets of traditional left-liberal orthodoxy, a paean to trade union power and an expanded role for the public sector. Whatever happened to the New Democrats? Tonight all the candidates were basically against new free trade agreements, in favour of massive government spending on education, foreign aid and everything else, and worst of all, completely opposed to the idea of taking on the teachers' unions by even countenancing the idea that better teachers should be better rewarded than duds.

Wolf Blitzer was a self-parodying disaster. He essentially lost control of the debate right at the start, and his failure to bring it to order lent the whole evening a vaguely riotous atmosphere, with far too much cheering and clapping and general noise from the audience.

Chris Dodd and Joe Biden once again proved that they, not Hillary, are truly the most experienced candidates in the race, though Biden's tone of patiently lecturing everybody else around him who doesn't share his enormous wisdom can be a bit grating.  Bill Richardson is a blustering blowhard ("All I want to do is give peace a chance!") who should do the only honorable thing at this point and blow straight out in the hope of being Hillary's VP nominee.

The continuing presence of Dennis Kucinich at these debates is an absurdity that detracts from their seriousness and potential impact. He should be sent packing on the next Unidentified Flying Object that attempts to make contact with him.

Comments

[Richard]

Richardson's hopes of being Hillary's running mate have been somewhat dented by his joke about her and the White House furniture. Vilsack seems more likely.

[Brien Comerford]

Huge victory for Hillary Clinton last night. The only other two candidates who did well were Joe Biden and Chris Dodd and they are very low in the polls. Hillary Clinton will be an excellent President but she needs to attain better knowledge of environmental and green issues. The best environmental candidate is Dennis Kucinich, a vegan. However, he would negate and imperil America's national security.

[John McD]

"The continuing presence of Dennis Kucinich at these debates is an absurdity that detracts from their seriousness and potential impact"

What, exactly, makes Kucinich's political ideas so absurd? From what I've seen he's the most straight talking and intellectually honest guy on the hustings (both democratic and republican).

This quote is a typically unfounded assertion from Baker who seems to take his talking points from the right wing press. Baker sees the most superficial of patterns and states them as fact, much like a precocious schoolboy with a newfound interest in politics.

[Bob Evans]

As Franklin D. Roosevelt plagiarizing intoned when faced with idiots, "A plague on both your houses!"*

*Romeo and Juliet , Act III, Scene i, Line 112

[Daedalus]

Dearst Gerard! Is there somebody else in this world who can't stand Wolf? Now, don't toy with me.

[gb]

Is no one bothered by the fact the Clinton campaign blatantly threatened and cowed Blitzer before the debate, then gave him a cookie in the form of a compliment afterwards for being such a good boy? I would think this would be too much even for the left-leaning mainstream media, but I guess not.
As Bob Dole once asked, where's the outrage? Apparently, it is dished out selectively and sparingly when it comes to the Democrats.

[Lynn]

Does anyone else wonder if it was the Clinton maifia that forced Spitzer to climb down?

[Mary Megan]

I did not see the debate, but know
that the Americans who work, reproduce
the species, pay taxes and fight for the
right to remain the freest, most democratic and socially liberal nation on the planet are very weary of politicians telling us that we should subsidize every illegal, unskilled or just plain lazy who deems themselves deserving of our time and treasure. America
was is still being built by those who strive, do their best and contribute. To penalize
the best, whether teachers or others,
by pretending that everyone is equal and that those who perform best deserve
no more than the inadequates, is the
best way I know of losing the election.
And the respect of those on whose backs
all pretenders ride.
As for Hillary's National Health Care delusion, watch England's NHS where thousands die in 'free' hospitals each year just because staff dont bother to wash their hands. Where the government is in control, public institutions are unaccountable.
I thought we would have realized by now that where the government has as much
power and control as Obama/Hillary want
to give it, no one is safe.

[elle]

Joe Biden may lecture (patiently) but his "lectures" are necessary given the disastrous outcome of the last two elections. He is by far the best choice the Democrats have but I suspect that most voters will continue to follow the polls (and the press) rather than think for themselves. After 8 years of Bush/Cheney the Democrats are probably right in believing that it really doesn't matter who the nominee is since no sane person could possibly vote to extend ANY Republican occupation of the White House. It would just be nice to finally elect a person who truly deserves to be President. G.H.W.Bush (4years); Bill Clinton (8years) G.W. Bush (8years) Surely the United States of America has more than just these two families from which to choose...it's beginning to look a lot like a monarchy...
Either Biden or Dodd would be a better choice than Hillary or Obama ...but the best choice for America (and the rest of the world) in terms of statesmanship; knowledge; international diplomacy and experience...not to mention a lifetime serving his country .... is unfortunately missing from the present line-up. Let's hope the person who does secure the nomination has the sense to choose him as VP !!

[David Bercutt]

Here I am, a lifetime liberal democrat, and Representative Ron Paul of Texas has swept me off my feet and made me register as a Republican! I can't believe it. This is the ONE CANDIDATE whose philosophy is grounded in the constitution, in personal liberties, in righting all the destruction caused by the Bush Administration, in just leaving Iraq, in taking care of OUR COUNTRY first, and is able to eludicate these issues beautifully and convincingly. Go Ron Paul!! I never thought it was possible.

[getintothetwentyfirstcentury]

Too bad that Mr. Baker does what the public does--look at the gloss, who looks "up" and who looks "down." Hillary has yet to have journalists--real ones--dig into what deal she made at the beginning of her campaign to get Rupert Murdoch on board with her. Few look at all the corporate apparatchiki who staff her campaign--Mr. Baker will find his "new"democrats there. Let's face it, Hillary is pretty much same old--waffle in Iraq and Iran, while Chelsea stays home--her little girl is no more likely to be clearing rooftops in Anbar or walking point in the Iron Triangle than is Jenna Bush to get off her barstool and into a ruck. And isn't that really why both our and your troops get hung out to dry--like Carl Rove as a young man, all the Blair, Bush, Cheyney and Brown kids have "better things to do" as do their friends, so the kids over there can stay over there, improperly equipped, fed by profiteering mega corporations, because it's not their doorstep
that will be approached by military in full dress with bad news.
So enough of talking about Hillary's "command"--it's glibness, not command. She hasn't had a new idea in 7 years. She won't next year, nor if elected thereafter.
Mr Baker shouldn't forget that while she was allegedly the queen of national health care she didn't come up with her plan until last month, long after others--and she immitated John Edwards' plan.

[Teresa Manix]

I attended the debate in Las Vegas, and disagree with some of Mr. Baker's comments. I don't think Kucinich is being beamed in...he makes sense and has been consistent in his policies--more so than any of the other candidates. He just lacks the political "style" that would get him into the running. He's so dry. I thought Chris Dodd was a poor speaker and it was hard to follow where he was going on some of his answers. He's too old school, Hillary kicked Edwards and Obama back to the curb! Obama should be embarrassed by his poor answers and hogging of the stage--his hypocrisy made him very unattractive as a candidate. Biden is pure class. He is secure in his knowledge and his experience speaks volumes . The top two in this debate were Biden and Clinton. All in all, you had to be there to enjoy the show. Only in Vegas!

[Erinn]

What "nosedive?" The only nosedive in Hillary Clinton's popularity has been the one the press has conceived despite any actual evidence of the fact. Hillary's poll numbers haven't changed in weeks, and none of this debate nonsense changed anything in the view of the American people. Stop trying to influence major elections by making up scandals that don't exist.

Barack Obama

The Multi Cutie liberals will not rest until they wreck America.

The same has the pro EU political mafia mobs will not rest until they wreck Britain, Ireland,and the rest of Northern Europe.

So wake up ( OK)

[torrentperson]

I wasn't too discouraged by the leftism. They are, after all, trying to win the Democratic nomination. The general election will be about moving to the centre -- and in Hillary Clinton's case, a small shuffle would do. Governing will require still more pragmatism.

[Chris Horton]

Gerald Baker of course has the right to detest Dennis Kucinich, who was in any case limited to 6 minutes time in a two-hour debate. However, as one of the gatekeepers of the mainstream media that deliver most of the information that a large majority of the public receives, he has a responsibility to play fair.

Surveys that match American voters' views on the issues with those of the candidates consistently find that Dennis Kucinich represents those views far better than any other candidate; and his use of his six minutes in Vegas shows him as being no lightweight in a debate. Given equal treatment from the media and equal access to the airwaves, Kucinich would be the leading candidate for president, hands down.

[Sonja]

Touche' Gerard...one of the best assessments of the debate I've read. I'm just hoping that when it does come down to Hillary, she won't for a second consider Obama or Edwards as running mates. Personally, I'm in favor of Biden primarily because he does have the experience and record of crossing barriers between parties. Keep it up PLEASE...look forward to hearing more of your insight on the issues.

[Anthony Oleck]

Great observations....I wouldn't worry too much about Kucinich however. I have it on good authority that a ship is coming to pick him up at the end of the month.

Much thanks to the people of Remulon for sharing their favorite son with us.

[Barney]

I thought Dennis K. made some good points:voted against China trade, Patriot act, and giving Bush the ability to invade Iraq. None of the others could claim that.

[Billy]

Your article is clearly pro-Hillary, and in line with every other TV chimp pundit, including the obnoxious James Carville. All your points about Obama taking a beating, Kucinich out of touch (another UFO joke?--clever!), and Bill Richardson as a potential Hillary veep are rehashed, tired, and right out of the DNC's talking points memos. Lazy writing, sir. Don't insult your readers.

[Barrie Machin]

The times has lost its objectivity with Baker's neocon bias. The candidates did well. Kucinich is the candidate who has been consistently right in foreign policy- the UFO thing is a furphy, Blair was into New Age prancing and now is joining the Roman Catholic Church. There are many people who think that belief in God and UFO's are similar. There may be more evidence for UFOs. According to Baker such beliefs would make most candidates in the UK and US ineligible for serious consideration.
Some might think that George Bush's belief that he is talking to God makes him certifiably insane but maybe Gerard talks to the same God.

[torrentperson]

I'm amused by Barrie Machin. So Kucinich "did well" and anyone who thought he came across as the low-IQ ideologue he is has a "neocon bias" and is on the same page as Bush? Puh-leaze. As for consistency, you're right Teresa: people with extremely simplistic world views that never scrape against reality tend to have it in spades. It must be really pleasant to be able to think, "All wars are bad, whatever the circumstances. The war in Iraq wasn't a mistake because the evidence on WMD was flimsy, or because it's not worth invading another country over mere chemical and biological weapons, or because of the lack of post-invasion planning, or because it would be too expensive, or the casualties too great, or because it risked strengthening Iran's position in the region, or because Iraq's entrenched sectarian divisions meant that the country could unravel in the upheaval of a war, particularly since that war would remove some of its major unifying institutions, but because it was a war and all wars are bad. All trade unions, and everything they do or think (except the environment), are super special awesome. All trade liberalization is totally awful, so I don't need to, like, read the individual trade deals. Because I know if it's a trade deal it's bad," and never have to study the situation, weigh the pros and cons, or struggle with complexity in any manner. But you know what? After the Bush years, America might not be in the mood for another ideological simpleton in the White House.